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Post by tamitha on Dec 28, 2008 19:00:44 GMT -5
No changes were made to this scene. It will be left in tact as reference for the scene changes that were made in the post below. Each scene will be brought over in tact. All changes will be made in the post below so that both can be compared. Additional changes will be made on the scene being edited until we are satisfied with it then we will start a thread for the Finalized version. If a scene is in the clean finalized thread and you wish add/take out/re-arrange-Please curtiously copy and past the scene you have issues with, bring it over into this thread and we will bang on it some more, but when we all agree it is the way we want it then it will be copied and pasted right back into the section it was taken from only better. This way we can maintain a clean readable Script. Not trying to be bossy, but in the absence of hS and Chronicler someone has to keep this orderly. hS script got murdered so many times he had to put it on g-mail to keep it clean. We no longer have access to G-mail so I would appreciate everyone abiding by these rules, because it gets messy and what we've decided to keep can get lost in the shufful if we don't set it aside and then if we go over there an start messing around then we will have defeated our purpose. For now G-& I are the only ones tackling this, but others may join. All we ask is for you to follow our lead so we can keep things neat and easily read and followed. We want your help, just keep all editing on the editing thread and if something on the clean thread needs to be edited lift it and bring it back to the editing thread, when the work is done it can be lifted back to the clean thread into the same spot it was lifted from no harm, no foul. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
THE ENTIRE, COMPLETE, "G" VERSION SCRIPT_PRE-EDITED
THE SILMARILLION: Fall of the Noldor
BLACK SCREEN
SUPER: SILMFILM PRESENTS
SUPER: A SILMARILLION FILM PROJECT PRODUCTION
AUDIO F/X: Sound of wind blowing softly
Galadriel (O.S.V.) So you wish to learn of the quest...of the beginning? Why burden your heart with such tales of the past? For what started in joy, turned to woe and tears unnumbered; but yes, I will tell you, since you desire it and think it of importance. Know of the light of Aman, the holy jewels and the quest; for I was there when doom fell on the Noldor.
SUPER: THE SILMARILLION: The Fall of the Noldor
EXT: DARK STARRY NIGHT SKY
PROLOGUE:
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Many things have been claimed as beyond compare. Indeed, many things have been regarded as wonders of the world, but none could match the holy jewels that were made long ago.
DISSOLVE: EXT: LUSH GARDEN - MIRROR OF GALADRIEL - NIGHT
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.)
Come...come look into the mirror, see and learn.
ZOOM IN: MIRROR/BASIN - Water in basin reflects stars, goes black, and then shows three points of light below a dark horizon
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) They were above all the wonders of ages past and beyond what mortal man could make. They were even beyond the skill of any elf, except the one who made them.
MOVING SHOT: Going toward the light in reflection ISOLATE: three sparkling objects that are being held by a male elf and are covered by a decorated cloth.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Fëanor, the son of Finwë, had in him a spirit fiery and more potent than all his kin. In craft he had no rival, and so it was he who made those things that were wondrous, magnificent, and pure. But to have a full understanding of their worth and the ambitions of those who wished to posses them, we must start at the beginning; learn of things before the foundations of the world were established.
DISSOLVE: EXT: Objects in reflection turn into stars in the sky. MOVING SHOT: Through star field to a black plane.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Before all else is Eru, the One, and in him all that is originated. He is Iluvatar, the father of all, and from him came the Ainur which were the offspring of his thoughts.
EXT: (CONT'D): The plane grays, a white light appears. It has a changing color pattern. Small lights spiral out shaded with color but are mostly white. They pulsate with visible sound waves and orbit the white light. The large white light starts to take a humanoid shape
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Eru set forth a theme and bid the Ainur to sing the song of creation. They sang it before him but the mightiest of his holy ones wove discord into the song.
ANGLE ON: Largest of the lesser lights becomes dim, red and pulsates faster; the sound waves become jagged.
BACK TO SCENE GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Melkor, he who arises in might, desired to place into the song his own ambitions and will. But his discord was fought against by Iluvatar's faithful lead by Manwë, the blessed one. Other themes Eru Iluvatar started and finally Eru's mastery overtook all that Melkor attempted, commandeering Melkor’s notes for Eru's own themes.
LONG SHOT: Sound waves blend together and then a big pulse of light washes out all of the waves. The bright figure leads the lights to a skewed image of the world.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Iluvatar showed a vision to the Ainur of what would be made by the music. It was a world wonderful and fair, in which he would bring forth his children, elves and men. Iluvatar allowed many of the Ainur to dwell in Arda, this new world; that they may assist in bring forth the beauty that they saw in the vision and prepare it for his children.
DISSOLVE: SURFACE OF PROMORDIAL EARTH - STORMY - NIGHT. Meteors impact in the distance. Lightning strikes and bright clouds descend to the ground. Forms, like Eru but smaller, rise from the strikes and impacts.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) The greatest of the Ainur are called the Valar, powers of the world. Melkor was there for he was indeed Valar but he worked against the will of Iluvatar and marred the land.
EXT: EXTREME LONG SHOT - LAMPS OF THE VALAR. The lamps fall slowly and fire erupts as they hit the ground.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) He darkened the light that the Valar had put in the world and destroyed their dwelling places. They fought bitterly against him but finally resigned to make a home away from his reach. So lead by Manwë, now King of Arda, and Varda his queen, they departed Middle Earth. They made new homes in the land of Aman which was across the great sea, in the region called Valinor.
DISSOLVE: EXT: OCEAN - TWILIGHT MOVING SHOT: Across the ocean to a pristine beach and then rich green pastures
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) There they did works of wonder, and above all, the two trees. Crafted by Yavanna and watered by the tears of Nienna, the trees of Valinor grew in beauty and grace.
CUT TO: EXT: VALINOR - GREEN HILL - TWILIGHT LONG SHOT: Yavanna stands with hands out toward trees. Nienna knells while they grow and bloom
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) The Valar did not forget the coming of the elves, first born of Iluvatar. They did not want them to be alone in darkness. Varda put bright stars in the heavens for them.
EXT: GLITTERING POOLS - GREEN HILL - TREE LIGHT MED. SHOT: Two arms dip into a pool. Hands are lifted to the sky. They sparkle like glitter and stars slowly appear.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) It was finally decided to gather the elves and bring them to the Blessed Realm, away from Melkor. Oromë, the hunter, went forth on his horse Nahar to lead them to Aman.
CUT TO:
EXT: CUIVIENEN (LAKE) - TWILIGHT CLOSE UP: Sparks jump from Nahar's hoofs as he goes up a ridge that over looks a camp of elves
CUT TO:
LONG SHOT: Elves look in wonder and fear at Oromë on Nahar.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Melkor tried to hinder the elves' journey through Middle-earth. He posed a threat too great to go unchallenged. The Valar rose up to battle and Melkor's army was defeated. Mighty Tulkas then bound Melkor with a great chain that was made by Aulë, the blacksmith.
INT: MED. SHOT: Utumno - Hall - Dark Tulkas is seen with his knee on the back of Melkor, holding him, and locking the chain
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Melkor was lead away to be held in the Halls of Mandos for three ages...until the appointed time.
DISSOLVE: INT: From Melkor and Tulkas to a beautiful large tapestry depicting that event in the Halls of Mandos.
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Post by tamitha on Dec 28, 2008 19:07:19 GMT -5
Okay: I like the idea of looking into Galadriel's mirror, but I'm so sure I like the lay out. I'm not sure what changes I want to make right at this moment, but I thought I would at least get a new thread started so we can edit it scene by scene cleanly, then we can put the finalized edited script on another thread. As of right now I just completed reading the un-edited script and I'm kind of burnt out, so will come back to this when I'm not so tired. Hope this is okay with everyone.
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Post by tamitha on Dec 29, 2008 13:29:43 GMT -5
THE ENTIRE, COMPLETE, "G" VERSION SCRIPT_PRE-EDITED
THE SILMARILLION: Fall of the Noldor
BLACK SCREEN
SUPER: SILMFILM PRESENTS
SUPER: A SILMARILLION FILM PROJECT PRODUCTION
AUDIO F/X: Sound of wind blowing softly
SUPER: THE SILMARILLION: The Fall of the Noldor
EXT: DARK STARRY NIGHT SKY
PROLOGUE:
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Indeed, many things have been regarded as wonders of the world, but none could match the holy jewels, named the Silmarils, that were made so long ago. They were above all other creations of ages past. Far beyond the skills of mortal men. Even beyond the skill of any elf, save the one who brought them forth. (minor changes, just some combining and rewording)
ISOLATE: three sparkling objects that are being held by a male elf and are covered by a decorated cloth. (I don't know what to do with this, but I do think that the silmarils should be shown here somehow) (do we want to keep this the way it is-three sparkling objects that are being held by a male elf and covered? or do we want to show them full on spiraling in space like a planet? or maybe orbiting around each other?)
DISSOLVE: EXT: LUSH GARDEN - MIRROR OF GALADRIEL - NIGHT
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.)
Come look into the mirror and learn of ages long ago. See the beginning, long before Sauron and the Ring of Power. For what started in joy, turned to woe and tears unnumbered. I know, for I was there when doom fell on the Noldor. (minor changes-rewording) (We already said ages long ago. More than once actually, but I will change time to long)
ZOOM IN: MIRROR/BASIN - Water in basin reflects stars, goes black, and then shows three points of light below a dark horizon
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Fëanor, the son of Finwë, had in him a spirit more fiery than has ever been known among the elves either before or after. In craft he had no rival, and so it was he who made the precious Silmarils that were both magnificent and pure. Their worth cannot be told. Obssessions with these beautiful gems began to hold sway. The ambitions of those who sought to possess them sullied the joy they were intended to bring. (minor changes-rewording)
DISSOLVE: EXT: Objects in reflection turn into stars in the sky. MOVING SHOT: Through star field to a black plane.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Before all else is Eru, the One, and in him all that is originated. He is Iluvatar, the father of all, and from him came the Ainur which were the offspring of his thoughts.
EXT: (CONT'D): The plane grays, a white light appears. It has a changing color pattern. Small lights spiral out shaded with color but are mostly white. They pulsate with visible sound waves and orbit the white light. The large white light starts to take a humanoid shape
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Eru set forth a theme and bid the Ainur to sing the song of creation, but the mightiest of his holy ones, Melkor, wove discord into the song. He desired to place into the song his own ambitions and will. (minor changes-rewording)
ANGLE ON: Largest of the lesser lights becomes dim, red and pulsates faster; the sound waves become jagged.
BACK TO SCENE GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Eru's mastery overtook all that Melkor attempted, commandeering Melkor’s notes for his own themes. (minor changes-rewording)
LONG SHOT: Sound waves blend together and then a big pulse of light washes out all of the waves. The bright figure leads the lights to a skewed image of the world.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Eru revealed Arda, the world created by the song, where he would bring forth his children, elves and men. The greatest of the Ainur, the Valar, powers of the world, came to dwell in Arda to prepare it before the awakening his children. (minor changes-rewording)
DISSOLVE: SURFACE OF PROMORDIAL EARTH - STORMY - NIGHT. Meteors impact in the distance. Lightning strikes and bright clouds descend to the ground. Forms, like Eru but smaller, rise from the strikes and impacts.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Melkor was there for he was indeed Valar but he worked against the will of Iluvatar and marred the land with such cruelty that all other Valar were forced to take refuge in Aman far across the great sea in the region of Valinor.
DISSOLVE: EXT: OCEAN - TWILIGHT MOVING SHOT: Across the ocean to a pristine beach and then rich green pastures
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) There Yavanna crafted the two trees which provided the light of Aman. Watered by the tears of Nienna, the trees of Valinor grew in beauty and grace.(minor changes-rewording)
CUT TO: EXT: VALINOR - GREEN HILL - TWILIGHT LONG SHOT: Yavanna stands with hands out toward trees. Nienna kneels while they grow and bloom. Show one to be silver and lesser light that grows brighter and dims, show one to be gold and a greater light that grows brighter and dims alternate of the silver tree, this will show the mingling light as one grows brighter and the other dims.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) The Valar did not forget the coming of the elves, first born of Iluvatar. And so it was that Varda put bright stars in the heavens for them.
EXT: GLITTERING POOLS - GREEN HILL - TREE LIGHT MED. SHOT: Two arms dip into a pool. Hands are lifted to the sky. They sparkle like glitter and stars slowly appear.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Soon after Iluvatar awoke the elves, Oromë, the hunter, went forth to invite them to the Blessed Realm, away from Melkor who had struck terror in their hearts. (minor changes-rewording)(I don't know all the fancy stage language, but could we like have a shot of Melkor kidnapping an elf that wandered away from Cuivenen here? It will not only support the above line, but will also support their fear and wonder of Orme)
CUT TO:
EXT: CUIVIENEN (LAKE) - TWILIGHT CLOSE UP: Sparks jump from Nahar's hoofs as he goes up a ridge that over looks a camp of elves
CUT TO:
LONG SHOT: Elves look in wonder and fear at Oromë on Nahar.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Melkor's efforts to hinder the elves' journey through Middle-earth posed a threat too great to go unchallenged. The Valar rose up to battle and Melkor's army was defeated. Mighty Tulkas then bound Melkor with a great chain that was made by Aulë. (minor changes-rewording)
INT: MED. SHOT: Utumno - Hall - Dark Tulkas is seen with his knee on the back of Melkor, holding him, and locking the chain.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Melkor was lead away to be held in the Halls of Mandos for three ages...until the appointed time.
DISSOLVE: INT: From Melkor and Tulkas to a beautiful large tapestry depicting that event in the Halls of Mandos.
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Post by Glorfindel on Dec 29, 2008 14:16:54 GMT -5
Although some have stated that they do not like color in the text, that does not apply to me. So, could you please "highlight" and/or bold the changes made in the post from the original? If it is spelling or grammatical, then a blurb at the bottom noting thus would be really nice. ;D
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Post by tamitha on Dec 29, 2008 19:43:24 GMT -5
When you were reading the above post I was in the process of making the changes so you were not able to view them, therefore it appeared as it was originally written with no changes apparent. Notes: " a time before Sauron and the Ring of Power" If you don't want this okay, but I am assuming that anyone remotely interested in this has seen the LoTR even if they haven't read the Silmarillion. Most people are interested in LoTR first and find out about Silmarillion after not the other way around. Most of our viewers are already going to be familiar w/Galadriel either from watching LoTR or reading LoTR or both. As I focused in on this scene and dissected it I felt there was an aweful lot of repetion about how "wonderous" the jewels were and beginning at the beginning. So I attempted to cut down on some of the repetition and I thought it would be advantageous to draw on something that would be "comfort food" for the audience. If it stands out too much it can be tossed. GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) The greatest of the Ainur are called the Valar, powers of the world. Melkor was there for he was indeed Valar but he worked against the will of Iluvatar and marred the land.
EXT: EXTREME LONG SHOT - LAMPS OF THE VALAR. The lamps fall slowly and fire erupts as they hit the ground.
GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) He darkened the light that the Valar had put in the world and destroyed their dwelling places. They fought bitterly against him but Middle Earth was being destroyed in the fierce war. So lead by Manwë, now King of Arda, and Varda his queen, they departed to the land of Aman which was across the great sea, in the region called Valinor. (minor changes-rewording)Do we care that he darkened the light of the Valar [....]? I mean we already said that he worked against the will of Iluvatar and marred the land. Can't we say: The greatest of the Ainur are called the Valar, powers of the world. Melkor was there for he was indeed Valar but he worked against the will of Iluvatar and marred the land with such cruelty that all other Valar were forced to take refuge in Aman far across the great sea in the region of Valinor.Aulë, the blacksmithDo we care that he's the blacksmith? I mean we didn't really tell that Yavanna is the grower of things, though we showed her growing things and we didn't say that Nienna was the queen of sorrow, though we showed her weeping, and we didn't say that Varda was the queen of the stars though we showed her placing stars in the sky. Is it not enough to say that Aule made the chain. Would this alone not show him as a blacksmith. Although I suppose it is important that Manwe is the King of the Ainur and Varda his queen and I eliminated that tidbit of information when I reworded the previous lines, but that can be brought out later. Knowing that Iluvatar had awakened the elves, Oromë, the hunter, was sent forth to invite them to the Blessed Realm, away from Melkor who had struck terror in their hearts.I think it is important that it be clear that the elves were "invited" rather than "gathered" because we don't want to come out the gate appearing as if the elves were made to come to Valinor which would only give credence to Melkor's lies about them being thralls. It was an invitation which they were free to accept or decline which if memory serves some did decline and were thereafter known as the "dark elves". You may wish to word it differently, it doesn't flow very well, hence many of the changes I have made. When I read it I try to hear Galadriel's voice in my head and think about how the prologue for LoTR sounded. It had a ring to it and the flow made you hang on her every word. There was a lot of info and yet her sentences covered much ground and were poignant driving home an important point. If our actress/narrator (whomever she may be) stumbles over the wording or the message gets lost in the too many words then the power of the words is lost and it becomes just a laundry list of facts. Now I am really going to go out a limb here, but when I start reading this Galadriel is talking about Feanor and the jewels and I'm really hyped up wanting to hear about this Feanor and these jewels and the "doom" that fell upon the Nolder and then all of the sudden she switchs gears and starts talking about Iluvatar and the Ainur and Melkor and the creation of the world and I'm thinking who cares? What does this have to do with Feanor and the jewels? I want to know about that. You focused me on one thing and then started talking about something else entirely. (That is the reader/viewer part of me--especially assuming I've never read the book) Now the writer part of me knows this information is valuable and must needs be, so I am going to make a HUGE leap and suggest the we eliminate Scene I The Summons. I propose that we add a blurb to the prologue which yes will make it longer, but the prologue for LoTR is pretty long and they really crammed a lot of info in there and I've seen a lot of movies that have long prologues. So here is my suggestion (author of script and other die hard fans please don't slay me-a simple no will suffice): GALADRIEL (O.S.V.) Melkor was lead away to be held in the Halls of Mandos for three ages...until the appointed time, when he was brought before all the Valar. Manwe and many of the Valar were deceived by Melkor's fair words and released him on condition that he remain in Valinor. Yet, Ulmo and Tulkas trusted him not and while they abided by Manwe's rule, they secretly begrudged his freedom. Melkor proved himself of value aiding both the Ainur and the elves with his secret knowledge and skills until the making of the Silmarils for he lusted after them with a passion equal to their makers fiery spirit. DISSOLVE: INT: From Melkor with a lurid smile and gleam in his eye to a beautiful large tapestry depicting ....? You chose: depicting Melkor's release at the council or depicting Feanor with the three Silmarils in his open hand so they can be seen or possibly depicting the two trees since that is where Scene 2 picks up. And while you are all preparing to fire hate mail at me please note that we have come full circle right back to where we began....Feanor and the jewels. Which by the way since the title of this the "Silmarillion" and we are choosing to make the jewels our focal point would it not be wise at some point during their description to actually come right out and refer to them as the Silmarils? I started to insert this in a couple of places, but took note of how G had taken great pains to call them anything and everything except the Silmarils and hesitated for fear of stepping on his toes too much. I've probably gone too far already.
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Post by tamitha on Dec 29, 2008 21:52:20 GMT -5
Now see....Scene 2 which will now be scene 1 fits neatly in here and no I've not edited it yet, I just brought it over. It's after 10:00 and I've hacked at it all afternoon and into the night. My head is pounding and my pillow is calling my name so this scene will have to wait. At least until after I find out if I'm going to be fed to the balrogs or given the blessing of Manwe.
Scene 2 - Fëanor and Finwë at the Trees
DISSOLVE: EXT: OUTSKITS OF THE CITY OF VALMAR (CITY OF THE VALAR) - LONG SHOT: THE TWO TREES - TREES EMINANT LIGHT
The tapestry changes into the setting of the real trees. MED. SHOT: Fëanor stands on a path about three furlongs (603m) from the trees. As he looks at the trees, his father approaches and stands next to him.
Finwë: (to Fëanor) Even after all the long ages, their splendor is still beyond what many words can tell. I also like to come here to be closer to their light, but I am surprised to see you away from your forge.
Fëanor: (to Finwë) Did I surprise you father? Truly the most surprising and amazing thing, is the wonderment of Telperion and Laurelin.
Finwë: (turns towards Fëanor) Yes, but it would also be wonderment to have you come visit my table. Long has it been since you were last there. Fëanor, a celebration is being planned, and I would like for you and your brothers...
Fëanor: (to Finwë but looking at the trees) The trees called me...at least it felt as if they did. I was on my way for supplies, as I pasted, they seemed to...call me. They are mesmerizing. I can only imagine how it must have been for you when you first saw them.
Finwë: (turns back to trees) Called you? That is unusual my son, but you are correct that they are mesmerizing. Of all the things that I witnessed when we were brought here, yes, the vision of their beauty was everlasting in my mind. When I returned to our people, I spoke of them first. They inspired me to persevere through long years on the difficult road to Aman.
Fëanor: (turns to Finwë) They are one of the few things that still impress me here in Aman although all here is fair. For them alone, it was worth the hardship of the journey.
Finwë: (to Fëanor) The blessed light here was worth it though the enemy railed against our coming. There was loss on that road, for some that set out on that journey never came to the Blessed Realm; but then, there has been loss here in Aman.
MOVING SHOT: Finwë turns slowly and starts to walk away; Fëanor follows after him
Fëanor: (walking behind Finwë) Father, are you alright?
Finwë: (pauses, turns to Fëanor) Yes, Fëanor, I'm fine.
Fëanor: (to Finwë, earnestly) I know that you have born many burdens and it is not my wish to add to them. My endeavors have kept me away from you and I am sorry for it, but I am near something great; I can feel it in my spirit. I just want to make something of great importance; craft something as Yavanna did when she created these two trees. I wish to bless you father, and bless all of Aman.
Finwë: (concern, sad) Yes Fëanor. You have great ambitions but you have already created works of wonder that you should be proud of. You do not mean to worry me, yet I remain concerned. In the house of Finwë...I have sons that barely speak to each other. Then there is Nerdanel and your sons...I now wonder if I did you a great disservice in the past and have caused such things to be.
Fëanor: (compassion) There is no need to question your heart or your choices now. You have always been near to me in my dire need. Although I have not warmly greeted your every decision, I will always be your son; in name and in deed I will honor you. My wife is well and your grandsons are growing in skill and spirit. They just like to wander and explore as I did when I was...
Finwë: (interrupting) Curufinwë, you have achieved much, and will go on to do even more exceedingly marvelous works I know. I will trust you to make the mastering of your own home one of them.
Fëanor: (serious) Yes father. It will be so.
Finwë: (slight smile) I must go. I seek Lord Aulë so I am off to his forge. Maybe I will see Curufin who visits often to learn craft. I was telling you earlier that I am calling for a celebration to mark the time which the Noldor arrived here in Aman. I like more that just Noldor to attend, but if you could...
Fëanor: (interrupting) If you need to speak with Lord Aulë, it may be some time before you get an audience. I heard that he was on his way to Mahanaxar. Some say there is important business to be discussed. Do you know what is going on father?
Finwë: (puzzled) I have heard rumor, but I did not think that the time was at hand. Now I really must be off, farewell Fëanor.
Fëanor: (to Finwë) Farewell.
CUT TO: LONG SHOT: Fëanor holds his hand out to salute his father then he lowers it and turns back to look at the trees
FADE TO BLACK:
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Post by tamitha on Dec 30, 2008 10:44:21 GMT -5
Hmmm....I don't know what to do with this. It is a very long and boring exchange between two characters who really aren't doing much of anything. I get the concept, Feanor's obession with the trees, his love and admiration of his father, a hint of the division and that Feanor didn't approve of all of his father's decisions, but it isn't clear what or why. We don't know that his mother died giving birth to him, or that he disapproves of his father's second marriage or that the reason he doesn't associate with his brothers is because he doesn't see them as his brothers, that they are lesser in his opinion since they do not have the same mother and not only lesser, but rivals for his father's attention. It fails in its attempt to set up the audience for what is to come, but I don't know how to fix it.
Scene 2 - Fëanor and Finwë at the Trees
DISSOLVE: EXT: OUTSKIRTS OF THE CITY OF VALMAR (CITY OF THE VALAR) - LONG SHOT: THE TWO TREES - TREES EMINATE LIGHT
The tapestry changes into the setting of the real trees. MED. SHOT: Fëanor stands on a path about three furlongs (603m) from the trees. As he looks at the trees, his father approaches and stands next to him.
Finwë: (to Fëanor) Even after all the long ages, their splendor is still beyond what many words can tell. I also like to come here to be closer to their light, but I am surprised to see you away from your forge.
Fëanor: (to Finwë) Did I surprise you father? Truly the most surprising and amazing thing, is the wonderment of Telperion and Laurelin.
See here for example. If Feanor is truly enraptured with the trees, he is enthralled, they have his full attention and his father just walks up on him and starts talking to him, wouldn't that like startle him. Wouldn't the natural thing to be would maybe jump a little and say something to the effect of "Father, you startled me. I didn't hear you walk up on me." To which Finwe would laugh slightly as is natural when we are embarrassed for accidentally startling someone and then say something to effect of "I can see. You seemed to be entranced with the trees." And then go on to make his speach "Even after long ages [....]?
Another approach is for Finwe to call out to Feanor as he walks up on him which also would be more natural, "Feanor, my son, how surprised I am to see you away from your forge. The trees are splendid are they not, even after these long ages." Feanor would of course still be startled and jump a little, but he would turn and acknowledge his father's approach. He would smile to see his father, but maybe still be a little ....what...dazed because the spell had just been broken and he might respond, "Father, it's good to see you. I...I was just, I came here because....Father the trees they call out to me. When I pass nearby I am almost compelled to stop and gaze upon them." That of course may not be the dialog you want to use, I don't do very well with high language. As I told hS I put in terms that are natural and draw out the emotion. You fancy up the words. But you get my point, it doesn't feel natural, it feels staged when someone walks up on someone else unawares and just starts talking and there is no reaction from the other person, other than to just respond. People don't just walk up to each other and launch into a speech. There is some sort of greeting which is short, before engaging in long drawn out discussion.
Another approach would be to have Finwe actually walk up on Feanor and speak to him and Feanor who is so deeply into the trees doesn't respond, so Finwe puts his hand on his shoulder and says, "Son, are you alright?" Feanor then looks at his father a little startled and dazed, maybe he shakes his head or rubs his eyes or blinks pronouncedly and says, "Father, I...where...when did you arrive? To which Finwe replies, "Feanor, the trees are indeed splendid even after all these long ages, but the power they seem to have over you is unnatural." Which could either be said all serious with doom and gloom or jokingly, however you want to set the mood.
Finwë: (turns towards Fëanor) Yes, but it would also be wonderment to have you come visit my table. Long has it been since you were last there. Fëanor, a celebration is being planned, and I would like for you and your brothers...
Fëanor: (to Finwë but looking at the trees) The trees called me...at least it felt as if they did. I was on my way for supplies, as I passed, they seemed to...call me. They are mesmerizing. I can only imagine how it must have been for you when you first saw them.
Finwë: (turns back to trees) Called you? That is unusual my son, but you are correct that they are mesmerizing. Of all the things that I witnessed when we were brought here, yes, the vision of their beauty was everlasting in my mind. When I returned to our people, I spoke of them first. They inspired me to persevere through long years on the difficult road to Aman.
Fëanor: (turns to Finwë) They are one of the few things that still impress me here in Aman although all here is fair. For them alone, it was worth the hardship of the journey.
Finwë: (to Fëanor) The blessed light here was worth it though the enemy railed against our coming. There was loss on that road, for some that set out on that journey never came to the Blessed Realm; but then, there has been loss here in Aman.
I'm not sure how important all this dialog is since we've already stated in the prologue that Melkor "hindered" their journey to the point of war between himself and the other Valar and then later in the script you have Finwe telling the tale at the dinner. It's awefully repetitive and Feanor no doubt would know the story by heart as in evidenced in him refering to it in the first place. He grew up on his father's knees hearing about it. This is the land of bliss, they wouldn't dwell on "the hard road" to get there, though it is believable that they would have a "festival" once a year to memorialize it and show honor for those who stayed behind or didn't survive the journey.
MOVING SHOT: Finwë turns slowly and starts to walk away; Fëanor follows after him
Fëanor: (walking behind Finwë) Father, are you alright?
Finwë: (pauses, turns to Fëanor) Yes, Fëanor, I'm fine.
Fëanor: (to Finwë, earnestly) I know that you have born many burdens and it is not my wish to add to them. My endeavors have kept me away from you and I am sorry for it, but I am near something great; I can feel it in my spirit. I just want to make something of great importance; craft something as Yavanna did when she created these two trees. I wish to bless you father, and bless all of Aman.
What burdens? Isn't this paradise? Who is this guy anyway? If I've never read the book and I'm sitting down to watch this for the very first time all I know is two guys are standing and talking to each other in front of some trees and the one dude is the other dudes dad because he called him father. Unless Feanor was shown in prologue (perhaps on the tapestry) I don't know this guy is Feanor. Finwe hasn't called him by name. Of course Feanor wouldn't call his father by name, but how do I know that Feanor's father's name is Finwe? So anyway I have these two guys talking to each other and they are father and son, and the son is obviously taken with the trees, but why is his Dad so sad and burdened down and why is his son so concerned about adding to his burdens? So he doesn't get along with his brothers and he works a lot. Big deal. Lot's of people don't get along with their siblings and work a lot. This guy is living in the most beautiful place ever created, he has a handsome young son who is married with children so he has grandchildren. What's his deal?
Sorry, I'm not trying to be harsh. But it's easier to write this having read the book and being familiar with the characters and you know in your head what you meant and who you intended to be speaking and for heaven's sake it's written right there who is talking, but the audience, the audience, the audience. Trust me, I have friends and family who have never read LoTR and they never will, but they've seen the movie and when I tell them about this book, you know what they say, "When will it be out on a movie?" And I tell them it won't and why and try to get them to read the book and they say, "Wow, it sounds really good, but I don't have time to read and it sounds complicated, but if it ever gets made into a movie, I'll watch it for sure. It sounds like I would really like it." We have to come at this from that point of view. They have never read the book, they don't know who any of these people are and they don't know what's going to happen next, so we can manipulate them. We can have them sitting on the edge of their seats, holding their breath wondering what's going to happen next and can't wait to see how this all turns out, or we can confuse them so much that it doesn't matter because it all doesn't make any sense to them any way. You've done well capturing them in the prologue, but if you lose them in the first scene then they will never make it to the rich, juicy parts at the end.
Finwë: (concern, sad) Yes Fëanor. You have great ambitions but you have already created works of wonder that you should be proud of. You do not mean to worry me, yet I remain concerned. In the house of Finwë...I have sons that barely speak to each other. Then there is Nerdanel and your sons...I now wonder if I did you a great disservice in the past and have caused such things to be.
Fëanor: (compassion) There is no need to question your heart or your choices now. You have always been near to me in my dire need. Although I have not warmly greeted your every decision, I will always be your son; in name and in deed I will honor you. My wife is well and your grandsons are growing in skill and spirit. They just like to wander and explore as I did when I was...
Again, dire need in the land of bliss? What dire need? This fairyland. Everybody is happy. Nothing bad ever happens here. You are living with the gods, and have eternal life, it is what we seek for at the end of life in reverse they have it at the beginning.
Finwë: (interrupting) Curufinwë, you have achieved much, and will go on to do even more exceedingly marvelous works I know. I will trust you to make the mastering of your own home one of them.
Fëanor: (serious) Yes father. It will be so.
Finwë: (slight smile) I must go. I seek Lord Aulë so I am off to his forge. Maybe I will see Curufin who visits often to learn craft. I was telling you earlier that I am calling for a celebration to mark the time which the Noldor arrived here in Aman. I like more that just Noldor to attend, but if you could...
Fëanor: (interrupting) If you need to speak with Lord Aulë, it may be some time before you get an audience. I heard that he was on his way to Mahanaxar. Some say there is important business to be discussed. Do you know what is going on father?
Finwë: (puzzled) I have heard rumor, but I did not think that the time was at hand. Now I really must be off, farewell Fëanor.
If we accept my proposal and add Melkor's release into the prologue then these lines become unnecessary because they are referring to something that has already happened rather than the other way round as they were intended.
Fëanor: (to Finwë) Farewell.
CUT TO: LONG SHOT: Fëanor holds his hand out to salute his father then he lowers it and turns back to look at the trees
This really bugs me. Salute his father? I mean I know the elves were all regal and big on formality and bowed to one another, but even in LoTR sometimes they kneeled, some times it was deep bows and other times it was a slight bow, while others it was just a nod of the head, but Aragorn hugged Hildar (if I spelled that correctly, not sure) when he came to honor the allegience between men and elves at Helm's Deep. Can we please at least have them shake hands. They are father and son after all. That is a pretty close relationship. If it were Inwe, or Olwe or one of the Ainur I could see, but supposedly these two were really close and spent a number of years together alone before Finwe married and Indis and had two other sons. It's just way to cold for two people who are supposed to be so close, even if there is some distance over the step-mom and half brothers.
FADE TO BLACK:
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Post by Glorfindel on Dec 30, 2008 13:08:46 GMT -5
Alright,
I'm going to address the prologue first. Just about all of the rewording is fine with me, no problem there. The reference to the ring and Sauron is okay; I would put "ages before" or at least "long before" because you are talking tens of thousands of years if not more.
The whole "darkened the light" bit was just to include some additional info. I believe that it was in hS's script and I just went with it to correspond with the "new" light from the trees.
The title for Aule was also a carry over from hS's script. If you remember, all of the Valar mentioned had a title attached including "Neinna the Weeper". I don't mention all of them in this version but the idea of the titles kind of stayed in. I also thought that it would explain the connection with the Noldor a bit before you get way into the story. The titles can be cumbersome so it can change; no worries.
Okay, the jewels or Silmarils are shown in the prologue and mentioned just as the ring is displayed in FOTR. The FOTR prologue focus on the ring and Sauron and then the first scene after that is the birthday party. It is a tease... ;D. I really don't think you lose the viewer going from the prologue to the first scene the same way you and I were not lost watching FOTR going from Sauron to the Shire. The triangle is Melkor, Feanor and the Silmarils. They are the main drivers. Let me think about Scene 1 and I'll let you know something soon.
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Post by Glorfindel on Dec 30, 2008 13:48:17 GMT -5
I am still reading your take on the Daddy and Son scene at the trees but I just wanted to point out something or ask your opinion on it. When giving out information such as the strife between Feanor and his brothers, how important is it to present the root causes early? We know from the book all the details but does the audience need to know more than Feanor does not like his brothers at this point. Of course that reason is revealed a few scenes down the road with the exchange between Finwe and Indis, then also at the celebration. How smart will we allow the viewer to be? I want to fill in the blanks without it sounding like I'm talking to my 15 year daughter that goes on and on and on.... Would Feanor bust out to the father that he loves, "You know that I don't consider them my brothers"?
Feanor can be a rude crude dude but he is crafty even in his rudeness. I have him trying to redirect the conversation, change the subject, not answering questions straight forward and using sarcasm. He is egotistical, smug, know-it-all in control until his temper gets too hot and then he will blast you. We can try to cut the scene or switch out info, but I do not, do not want a whiny Feanor. He is the best and worst of all the Noldor, but not a whiny brat (spoiled and over-favored, but not whiny).
Anyway, back to too many words
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Post by tamitha on Dec 30, 2008 14:27:30 GMT -5
The whole "darkened the light" bit was just to include some additional info. I believe that it was in hS's script and I just went with it to correspond with the "new" light from the trees.
If it's okay with you I think we can drop it. This script is doesn't require it. One of the major problems with hS script that I was just as guilty of was too much detail. It doesn't move the story along. A point made by one of collaborators on LoTR as to why the episode with Tom Bombadil (if I spelled that correctly, not sure) wasn't included on the movie. It was good in the book, but contributed nothing to moving the story along on film.
The title for Aule was also a carry over from hS's script. If you remember, all of the Valar mentioned had a title attached including "Neinna the Weeper". I don't mention all of them in this version but the idea of the titles kind of stayed in. I also thought that it would explain the connection with the Noldor a bit before you get way into the story. The titles can be cumbersome so it can change; no worries.
Yes, yes, again too much detail. Again I was just as guilty. Knowing that we were overloading and not wanting to let go of anything. This script is much better at skimming the surface and we can easily find things to let go of or places to expound upon.
Okay, the jewels or Silmarils are shown in the prologue and mentioned just as the ring is displayed in FOTR.
I agree, the jewels are displayed, but can I come right out and say the word Silmarils? I'll go back and put in where I wanted to and if you don't like it then you can let me know. We can change it back.
The FOTR prologue focus on the ring and Sauron and then the first scene after that is the birthday party. It is a tease... . I really don't think you lose the viewer going from the prologue to the first scene the same way you and I were not lost watching FOTR going from Sauron to the Shire.
The problem isn't so much that the first scene switches to something else as the prologue itself switches to something else. Now if we start with Eru and move to Feanor, as P.J. started with Sauron and the ring and moved to Bilbo finding the ring that's one thing, but he didn't start with Biblo finding the ring and then switch back to Sauron. Like Bilbo found the ring power, but wait, before I tell about the Bilbo finding it let me go back and tell you how the ring came to be in the first place. But I get that you want the focus to be on the Silmarils as the focus of the LoTR is what else-the ring. However there is a bit of a quandry because while they were able to begin with "the forging of the one ring and the dark Lord Sauron" they didn't then have to back track and tell you who Sauron was or how he came to be. For us we starting with the very beginning of all things and the Silmarils cannot come before all else because Eru comes before all else, so we have to back track. Now the connection will become clear as we move through the movie, but for prologue purposes I think we need to find a way to tie it together otherwise you have the Silmarils on one hand and Eru and the Ainur and Melkor on the other and so what's the connection? In the prologue as it stands what does Melkor have to do with Feanor or the Silmarils? Even if we tie it in we can still keep scene one. It won't hurt to show Melkor being released as alluded to in the prologue, I just think it is unnecessary. Otherwise you are pretty deep into to the film before you have that aha moment and say "Oh, now I see what Melkor has to do with the Simarils." I really think it's a fork in the road and we really need to make that connection early on without giving away too much. Bilbo's connection to the ring was made clear in the prologue.
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Post by tamitha on Dec 30, 2008 15:39:50 GMT -5
When giving out information such as the strife between Feanor and his brothers, how important is it to present the root causes early? We know from the book all the details but does the audience need to know more than Feanor does not like his brothers at this point. How smart will we allow the viewer to be? I want to fill in the blanks without it sounding like I'm talking to my 15 year daughter that goes on and on and on.... Would Feanor bust out to the father that he loves, "You know that I don't consider them my brothers"?
Feanor can be a rude crude dude but he is crafty even in his rudeness. I have him trying to redirect the conversation, change the subject, not answering questions straight forward and using sarcasm. He is egotistical, smug, know-it-all in control until his temper gets too hot and then he will blast you. We can try to cut the scene or switch out info, but I do not, do not want a whiny Feanor. He is the best and worst of all the Noldor, but not a whiny brat (spoiled and over-favored, but not whiny).
Oh, I agree with you, definitely not whiny! Shudder the thought. First let me say, while incorporating recent changes to the prologue per your agreement, that I must apologize because when you introduce Feanor, you do call him the son of Finwe. So it is established early on the Finwe is his father; however it might behoove us to actually show Feanor and Finwe together in the prologue at the time of introduction, so when we get to this scene we know who they are. You are really good with all that directing and moving shots and close ups and having something going on in the background during the prologue to match up with the story being told so I will leave that to you.
Giving out information....hmm...No I absolutely do not think that Feanor would rudely or even nicely for that matter tell his father that he did not consider them to be his brothers, however it might behoove us to somehow get it in there that Finwe knows how difficult it has been for Feanor never knowing his mother, or growing up without his mother or tell him that he should stop feeling guilty for his mother's death, or that he doesn't need to try to make up for his mother's death or something along those lines. I mean think about it. How guilty would a person feel once he/she was old enough and came to understand that the reason his/her mother died was because of bringing them into the world? And he/she never got to meet his/her mother and the surviving parent never stopped grieving the loss? I mean lets face it, Feanor got a raw deal from the get go and then Finwe overindulged him for years trying to make up for the loss and the whole reason Feanor really didn't like Indis or his brothers was not because they took the place of his mother, but because he had been Finwe's sole attention and now he had to share. Feanor doesn't do share very well. As we see with the Silmarils.
I think it is fine for the audience to just know that Feanor doesn't like his brothers, but somehow that isn't quite clear. When you say that I have sons that don't speak that implies that none of them are speaking to each other, but when you say Feanor you never speak to your brothers, Your avoidance of your brothers causes me grief, or somehow put the blame directly onto Feanor. Make it clear that the division lies with Feanor. You did well in having Finwe blame himself for the way Feanor turned out and we want to keep that, but I think we need to be a little more direct. Not overtly, I get the subtly factor, keep the viewer guessing, don't give away too much and I get having him trying to change the subject. I didn't at first, when you had him interrupt Finwe and go back to talking about the trees I thought that was to drive home his obession with the trees, but we'll figure it out. I gave you a lot of suggestions on how to ramp up the initial meeting, when you decide on an approach then we'll see how the conversation goes.
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Post by Glorfindel on Dec 30, 2008 15:41:12 GMT -5
Feanor and Finwe:
The human reaction of being "startled" would not necessarily apply to an elf born in Aman. He would never need to be "jumpy" unless we assume that it is an inborn trait to all of the children of Iluvatar. Even humans are not startled all of the time, especially if they are in familiar environments. I have been working computer issues at home or at work and had someone make a noise or walk up besides me and it not made me jump. I would think that in those instances, we are really aware in our subconscious, but choose to ignore it until we allow ourselves to recognize it or react. Further more, as you stated several times, he is in "fairyland" , the land of bliss. You have the reaction to jump as a self-preservation mechanism to get you away from danger. What is there to fear in Aman? I think Finwe somehow breaking Feanor's concentration without him looking like Don Knotts will be fine. Maybe Finwe walking up and calling him from a short distance.
The "long hard road" line can be changed or cut since it is covered in other places.
The burdens can be changed to burden. What burden? The lose of his first wife, that it said in the book "diminished his bliss" and lead to him remarrying.
The whole name not being revealed thing is not a giant issue. Feanor was mentioned and can be still shown in the prologue (unless you think that is a bad idea). Why do I need to know the father's name right now? How does it help move the story or address a plot point? Is it vital information that is needed for the next scene? The identity of Finwe as Feanor's father (and father to two brothers that he does not like) is the essential information. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how you will get lost if you don't know it. Feanor could say "Hello King Finwe, my father; how go you this blessed day?" Maybe "farewell King Finwe my father, I hope to see you again soon". It will give more formality and make my "salute" more palatable.
By the way, a salute does not have to be cold as you envision it.
According to Merriam-Webster:
1 a: to address with expressions of kind wishes, courtesy, or honor b: to give a sign of respect, courtesy, or goodwill to greet.
I think my choice of words was the real issue. I should have said "waved bye-bye".
What I saw in my mind was Feanor holding up his hand like "Mr. Spock" but just not doing the split finger thing. This would be sort of like they sterotyped Native Americans doing and saying "How". They can do a hand grasp at the forearms if that seem better to you.
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Post by Glorfindel on Dec 30, 2008 16:12:29 GMT -5
Lady you're too quick on the draw! I can barely get my thoughts together before you post a couple of times on me. Now let's see. I do get the point about a more focused prologue. I would like to include Finwe and Feanor together somehow in the prologue. We can cut some of the other stuff as long as it flows well and is all connected smoothly. Do we dare omit almost all of the Ainulindalë like they did old Tom in LOTR? If we did, then some of that could still come out in a modified release scene in the Ring of Doom. I like the guilt of Feanor feels about maybe causing his mother's death and that he felt that he should have been enough to keep his dad happy. We can change it up a little to "brothers that never speak" and "I know that you care not for my wife Indis" etc. Good work, good ideas, and yes, you can change jewels to Silmarils as long as the viewer has an idea about what the heck a Silmaril is. ;D
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Post by tamitha on Dec 30, 2008 23:16:33 GMT -5
Me too quick on the draw? I'm aghast! I was trying to keep up with you. While I was responding to one post you were posting another response. Ah, well I will take the blame for I caused us the same dilema I created for hS and I by working on two scenes at once. I told you they leave me sit all day long with nothing, nada, zilch to do. I've been surfing the web for weeks reading about random topics, like Zorses (which happens to be a cross between horses and zebras in case you didn't know), but I digress. Sorry for getting out ahead of you, but I just went ahead and tackled Scene 2 while I was waiting for you to look at the prologue because I was having such a difficult time with it. Okay, back to business---Focus, focus, focus---- 1. I would like to include Finwe and Feanor together somehow in the prologue. Yes, please do. Right in the section where you introduce "Feanor, son of Finwe". I don't know show them working together in the forge or something. Something powerful that will show that Feanor commands his father's attention. 2. Do we dare omit almost all of the Ainulindalë like they did old Tom in LOTR? Nope, won't work, the trees and Melkor are way too important. Got to have them. You've done a really good job of indicating to the viewer the we are "going back in time" from the point of Silmarils by showing three points of light which is the focal point, to a starry sky, to a black sky, to a gray plane upon which Eru appears. And the line that says, "Before all else there was (or is-can't remember off the top of my head) Eru." That says it all. What more can you say? Before all else was Eru, so he came before Feanor and the Silmarils. He had to, you said so. That said I've done some more work on the prologue, hence the late hour of this post. (Hint, hint-strongly urge you to re-read it) Still think that we need to bring it full circle and mention Melkor's release and lust for the Silmarils. It sets up the viewer. Melkor is now connected to both Feanor and the Silmarils and we just know there is going to be trouble. This bad dude who doesn't have a rival among the Ainur-(I mean he is the mightiest and it takes all of the Ainur to bring him into custody) is going to challenge the Elf who has no rival among his kind? Could be interesting. (Am I selling it yet? Changed the wording of that too, so have a look at that too, but left it in the post where it is proposed. We can keep Scene 1 if you feel strongly about it. I haven't looked into editing it yet, until we decide whether to keep it or lose it. 3. The human reaction of being "startled" would not necessarily apply to an elf born in Aman. [...] I think Finwe somehow breaking Feanor's concentration without him looking like Don Knotts will be fine. Maybe Finwe walking up and calling him from a short distance.Okay, okay I surrender. Didn't intend for him to "look like Don Knotts" silly goose, but yeah we want to drive home the point that Feanor has an unnatural affection for these trees. He's consumed by them, so I have a real affinity for the idea of Finwe actually walking up on him and putting his hand on his shoulder to pull him out the spell he is under. Yes, elves were highly alert and could "feel" things, sense them, hear better, see better, but the key is how alert they were. In this unique circumstance Feanor is oblivious to all else but the blessed trees. He's in another world, almost a trance. Maybe he wouldn't jump, but he still wouldn't be aware of his father's presence. We most definitely have to "break his concentration". I will work on some dialog tomorrow, not tonight, it's too late. 4. The burdens can be changed to burden. What burden? The lose of his first wife, that it said in the book "diminished his bliss" and lead to him remarrying. Yes, yes, I know that. But.... if I haven't read the book, I don't know that. Please understand that when I ask "stupid questions" I'm coming at you like some poor naive soul that knows nothing save what I've seen in LoTR. I know nothing. I've never even heard of Silmarillion except through some friends who really thought I ought to "check it out" or some advertisement that "sounded really good". 5. The whole name not being revealed thing is not a giant issue. Feanor was mentioned and can be still shown in the prologue (unless you think that is a bad idea). Why do I need to know the father's name right now? How does it help move the story or address a plot point? Is it vital information that is needed for the next scene? The identity of Finwe as Feanor's father (and father to two brothers that he does not like) is the essential information.Oh, dear I think that you would think me a terrible movie watcher. If I really like a movie I will watch it at least twice, sometimes three or four because I miss stuff the first time. And when I'm watching with someone else I can actually talk to if I don't understand something I'm on it. I'm asking "Who is he?" "Why did he say that?" "What does he/she have to do with anything?" and if I'm alone I have remote in hand and will pause/rewind in a heartbeat because I'm like "Wait a minute, where did that guy come from? Who is he? What's he got to do with what's going on?" So, I'll grant you perhaps I'm being overly concerned and perhaps the "average" viewer wouldn't "really" care about all the little nuances. I think I watched the "Butterfly Effect II" four times, there were so many twists and turns. What? Am I taking all the fun out of? Yeah, maybe so. The downside of being too analytical. See I was nice and didn't use the slang word reserved for those of us who fall into that catagory. On a side note: No, no and no Feanor must never call his Father King Finwe, not in a one on one converstation. Not that he can't refer to him as King Finwe in conversations with other, but never when speaking directly to his Father. That is disrespectful and shows lack of honor when a child calls their parent by name in this day and age, even more so back in the day year age]millinia[/s]-whatever-a time before a time when there was no time. Nyet, very bad idea. 6. I think my choice of words was the real issue. I should have said "waved bye-bye". *Laughing to tears* Stop! Okay, I get it and yes there was a gross misunderstanding. I am thinking like a soldier saluting an officer. It was just way over the top. If you want to have him raise his hand as a salutation that's cool, but honestly I prefer the hand grasp of the forearms. It's more personable. That said I really must get some sleep or I will never be able to get up and go to the torture chamber in the morning.
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Post by Glorfindel on Dec 31, 2008 11:41:37 GMT -5
What are you doing up late like that? You won't have the energy to surf the web in the morning and find about Ligers and Tigions. ;D ...Something powerful that will show that Feanor commands his father's attention.[/i] I like a brief glimpse of Feanor working on something; Finwe looking on with a smile...something like that. Still think that we need to bring it full circle and mention Melkor's release and lust for the Silmarils. Okay, okay, Let me take a stab at putting the lusting Melkor into play in the prologue. I'll try to have something together this afternoon or tomorrow and probably mention that he hated Feanor in it too. We can keep Scene 1 if you feel strongly about it. I haven't looked into editing it yet, until we decide whether to keep it or lose it. If you don't mind, I would still like to see it in there. It is very short and like how it connects the prologue to the trees. He's in another world, almost a trance. Maybe he wouldn't jump, but he still wouldn't be aware of his father's presence. We most definitely have to "break his concentration". Maybe a slight double take or fast blinking with a deep sigh; like someone being brought out from under a hypnotic suggestion. Yes, yes, I know that. But.... if I haven't read the book, I don't know that. Please understand that when I ask "stupid questions" I'm coming at you like some poor naive soul that knows nothing save what I've seen in LoTR. I know nothing. The question that I would continuously pose is, " Do you need to know it?" Or at least, "Do you need to know it now?" A lot of information will given out in other scenes or hinted at visually so that the viewer is never left hanging for long. Quite a few things are mentioned or stated more that once later on to pay off the viewer for paying attention. I'll have to look back at LoTR but I think I remember that Pippin's relationship (or how they are related) to Frodo is not addressed until they are at the "Prancing Pony". Before then, you just assume that they are friends or close relatives that care for one another and move on (they also cut Fatty out altogether). Gandalf's rescue by Thorondor is glossed over as to the complete past connection (they don't even have Thorondor speak). Just who Aragorn is happens many scenes after his intro into the story. It's not until the Rivendel council that his complete identity is revealed. Have you seen "The Prestige"? Treat yourself and check it out if you have not. Sometimes holding back is better that pouring it on. It builds curiosity and intrigue. The viewer starts to ask, "What is he hiding?", "What is her dark secret?", "I wonder what he did to cause them to get a divorce?". Then you can clue them in scene by scene, or do a big reveal at the end like in the movie "The Six Sense" or "Unbreakable". I'm just talking story in general. In the movie "The Dark Knight", you don't even know where the Joker comes from or who he really is. Yet the character and story are both compelling. I digress, since we have Finwe and Feanor with Melkor being reworked into the prologue, and the conversation between Finwe and Feanor amped up a bit, this should resolve some of your concerns. No, no and no Feanor must never call his Father King Finwe, not in a one on one converstation....hat is disrespectful and shows lack of honor when a child calls their parent by name in this day and age, even more so back in the day year age]millinia [/s]-whatever-a time before a time when there was no time. Nyet, very bad idea. [/size][/i][/quote] It was meant to show respect of his position as "King" not to just call him his name. "Oh Father, King Finwe of the Noldor, I am glad to see you so soon again." It does not matter at this point because Finwe will be firmly introduced in the prologue. *Laughing to tears* Stop! Okay, I get it and yes there was a gross misunderstanding...but honestly I prefer the hand grasp of the forearms. It's more personable. We can do the arm thingy. I don't want to run the risk (even slight) of having a G.I. Feanor.
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