Elianna
Journyer
Isn't Eldarion adorable!
Posts: 46
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Post by Elianna on Nov 21, 2004 18:31:28 GMT -5
Now you're being too nice.
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Post by Nerdanel on Nov 21, 2004 19:00:30 GMT -5
It occurred to me that since Nerdanel is pronounced with the stress on the first syllable (only one consonant between the two final syllables) 'Danel would be never used. Elves never seem to use that kind of nicknames anyway.
Now if I could ascertain if it was supposed to be NER-dan-el or NER-da-nel or what...
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Elianna
Journyer
Isn't Eldarion adorable!
Posts: 46
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Post by Elianna on Nov 21, 2004 19:27:58 GMT -5
I'd think it'd be NER-dan-el. "El" probably means star. "Nelde" means three, but that has little to do with anything, and would involve dropping some letter. And you're right about Elves not seeming to make nicknames by dropping a few sounds; I mean Galadriel is a nickname for Altariel.
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Post by Huinesoron on Nov 22, 2004 5:26:46 GMT -5
I admit to borrowing 'Danel from the Leithian script ( oddlots.digitalspace.net/leithian/), and I think it's Finrod who calls her 'Aunt 'Danel' a few times. It can be cut out if declared silly and improbable, though -- that's one of the reasons we have people to edit. And I'm rather annoyed that I can't get Nerdanel to call Feanor 'Nar or 'Naro, which would make sense in Quenya (Fire is a nice nickname...), but in the Sindarin gloss come out as 'Nor, which... well, I used it once, but it's not nice. I think I'm going to have to turn these bits of the script into a narrative and post them on FF.net so I can do all those things I want to but can't...
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Post by ElvenBookwyrm on Nov 22, 2004 14:28:59 GMT -5
Speaking of Leithian, are we doing that in this movie? Because if we are, I've got an idea on how to show her... or rather, not show her. In the Illiad-ic style, never show her face... let the audience imagine their own image of beauty. (Should I put that in the artists thread or something?)
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Post by Nerdanel on Nov 22, 2004 16:52:15 GMT -5
I think it probably is NER-dan-el, but still it's hard to say. According to some detective work I did at Ardalambion Nerdanel might mean something like Ninth Brook in which "nel" (the equivalent of Quenyan "nellë" and possibly also seen in the name Nellas) would be the brook.
Nerdanel might also be something like Nine Lofty Stars or Male-guiding Star or something. (This last one is the most grammatically uncertain.)
I might be entirely wrong, of course. I'm not an Elvish expert and I was using a Quenyan wordlist to make sense of a Sindarin name.
- Nerdanel a.ka. Nertëanelle(?) a.ka. Nertánael(?) a.k.a. Nertanael(?)
(I think Nertánael - Nine Lofty Stars - is my favorite but I can't be sure it's the correct translation. Male-guiding Star might be a successful mother-name.)
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Post by RoseCotton on Dec 20, 2004 19:26:43 GMT -5
Er.......I was wondering. Before writing the screenplay shouldn't everyone agree on the basic format of the movies? If you have I'm deeply sorry and would ask to know about that. I do agree with Berzerker_prime that we need to pick and choose our story. The hardest part about making these movies will be cutting.
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Post by Huinesoron on Dec 21, 2004 10:37:31 GMT -5
Sorry, Rose, but what do you mean by basic format?
(You may be able to tell at this point that my background in film is nonexistant)
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Post by RoseCotton on Dec 21, 2004 15:42:29 GMT -5
I mean, like what are the scenes going to be? What is going to be the main plot to each movie. Who will be the character(s) that will carry that plot. The Silmarillion has so many characters and so much going on that inorder to make each film into one contiuous story we have to figure out who and what is imporant and what can be only referenced or left out entirely.
You may have already planned some of this.
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Post by Huinesoron on Dec 23, 2004 7:27:24 GMT -5
Ahh. Well, the way I'm currently doing it, I'm just putting in absolutely everything. Once it's done, we can take a look-see and work out what needs cutting/editing/whatever.
The reason I'm doing this is because I may end up converting the complete, unedited script into a narrative form to stick up on FF.net. So I need everything, and we need everything to save time with the writing and prevent arguments over it.
I think. Of course, Maeglin's working on Leithian, so I don't know how that's being done. And of course, I'm always willing to write in extra scenes if desired.
I think there's a projected listing of what happens in which film in the General>About The Project>The Silmarillion Film topic. At the moment, I've got FotN projected as reaching just before or after Dagor Aglareb. Again, that may be changed, but... [Shrugs]
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Post by Maeglin on Dec 28, 2004 12:51:34 GMT -5
Nerdanel worked out the "basic skeletons" of the plots on the About the Project board. I am relying fairly heavily on that guideline, though I ditch where I disagree. For example, I am going to introduce Thuringwethil where she suggested, but not Huan. Without that list to fall back on, I'd be fairly sunk.
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Post by Hador Goldenhead on Feb 21, 2005 15:15:57 GMT -5
OK - so prepare to hate me... sorry if I cause any offence by what I might say (I really do not intend to). I only recently come across this project (yesterday to be precise) - so be sure to tell me to go to hell if you like (or just ignore me and I'll probably go away ). So what follows is really only my own opinion (not necessarily the right or wrong opinion - or maybe not even a valid opinion - but just the way I see things). So here goes... It probably seems a strange place to start - but I printed of scenes 2 to 5 to read over during the quiet spells at work (shhhhh!!! don't tell anyone ), and while I may not of done things the same (and lets face it - I'm not writing the script so I'm a fine one to talk ), the main thing that strikes me about being a little out of place is the dialogue in a few places... ...I think you have already addressed the 'look at the tilkal stuff Aule came up with' - but I see a few other moments of dialogue that seem, well, erm... a little un-elivish (I don't mean the languages - more along the lines of words or sentences that I would not imagine them using). Some things like Finarfin saying "Hi Feanor" just seem wrong to me, as I always assumed (and indeed the way it comes across in the books, and even in the films) is that they speak in a much more formal way than most of us. Actually before I continue I think I'll end this (my first real post) here for now - before I really start to annoy anyone. Though I was wondering if this kind of (hopefully constructive) criticism that would be of any help to you. If you want me to continue with my mindless ramblings (and there are probably going to be many) - just let me know (though please do not be offended by any of my views - I really do admire you for undertaking this monumental task) - it's only that I would really like the project to be the best that it could possibly be because I am so passionate about these stories.
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Post by Maeglin on Feb 22, 2005 10:16:38 GMT -5
Hador, we'd love to hear anything you have to say. Myself, I'm often with you about the dialogue, but Huinesoron is free to his own style, and it works in places. Often it increases clarity and excitement. But sometimes it does let a certain jarring modern idiom intrude.
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Post by Berzerker_prime on May 8, 2005 23:19:57 GMT -5
Well, this is a post I'll probably be hated for as soon as anyone reads it, but I feel it needs to be said. Please understand that none of this is personal and I mean no ill will to anyone working on this project. I wish you all luck on it, in fact. The problem is that I don't think it's going to work out. I had high hopes for this project at its beginning and in some respects I still do. A fan-made Silmarillion adaptation would be a marvel to behold and I hope some day to see it. But I feel certain things about the way its being done around here are going to cause its eventual doom. I had been away from the message board for a few months, preoccupied by real life. Now that things are slowing down somewhat, I stopped back in to see how it was going. I was eager to get back into the process, but after reading what has been posted of the script, I have to admit to being completely dissilusioned. I've grown up in a film-savvy family. I'm practically a film nerd by blood, and admittedly, that probably makes me something of a film-snob. I've seen terrible movies that everyone loves. I've loved movies few people understand. And after a series of college courses, I like to think I know a little bit about how a movie goes together. Leadies and gentlemen, I'm sorry to say that the Silm Film project is very much not how a movie is done. The script thus far is a stylistic and pacing disaster with each and every character not true to their book heritage and far too much material packed into it. The too-long twenty-minute prologue, for instance, does not even cover what should be covered. And then, the script moves into character interactions that sound like a bad teen-movie. Further, it is an absolute mistake to leave the entirity of the script writing to one person; it's too large a job for any mortal man, let alone a single amature writer. For a group project such as this, group-writing should be the watchword so that more of a shared vision of the characters can shine through. Beyond the problems with the screenplay, though, is a much larger and more sinister issue. Thus far, the project has been helmed by a handfull of people, and that's fine; every project needs its leaders. The problem is that though opinions are asked for frequently, it is very very exceedingly rare that any of those opinions that differ from those of the leaders are listened to. Thus far, those who seem to me to have knowledge of the film process have been quashed, their opinions and suggestions brushed off with the argument "that's not what we think and we're doing the writing." I've said it before and I'll say it again; film and text are not the same thing. It's all well and good to want to be true to the books, to get every detail exactly right, to include everything. But it is not possible to do if you want to make a good movie. There are things that can be done in text that cannot be done on film. There are things that can be done on film that cannot be done in text. One cannot simply take a book and a camera and start filming. You must allow for things to be cut. You must allow for things to be changed. You're attached to the material and that's great; that's how good movies begin life. But adapting a beloved book to film sometimes means distancing oneself and asking questions like "do we really need this scene?" and "does this work or is there a better way to do it?" As of now, these discussions are not happening. They are being either quashed or ignored completely. I like to think that it's because of a general misunderstanding of the process of film-making, which is easily remedied by a little bit of research into the process. But there also seems to be a general unwillingness to do such research. And so, there is an impasse. I've seen such projects come and go, every single one of them failing. When this project began, I was convinced that it was going to be the one that made it. But more and more, I see it following the exact same patterns. I know how this will all turn out. Interest is already being lost. And so, you can officially lable me the doomsday cultist of the group. This ship is sinking, and so this rat is deserting. I wish you luck, for you will certainly need it. And with that, I say to each of you, namarië.<br> Berz.
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Post by Huinesoron on May 9, 2005 5:45:13 GMT -5
Berz, leaving isn't going to help. Saying things like that is.
I'm fully aware that I know nothing about films. What I intend to do is finish up the script as a first draft, and then let other people do the editing. This gets around the fact that I really have big problems with editing my own work. Most of the time, I just can't see anything wrong with it. And yes, I'm also aware that I have an automatic 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong' response to most criticism. That, again, is why I intend to let other people -- including yourself, if you're willing -- do the editing.
EDIT:
Would you care to reconcile the fact that you object to things being different to the books with the fact that you say things have to be different to the books?
Oh, and while I'm here, I might as well address the dialogue thing Hador brought up, as I forget whether I did.
Yes, people back then talked in a very formal style. They also talked in a completely different language, with different inflections and implications. It's not possible to talk informally in Quenya, or not easily. What I've done is to try and reflect things such as the two forms of 'You', the intimate -tye and the formal -lye, by altering how people speak depending on who they're speaking with. Thus, talking to family and friends, the Eldar will tend to use informal english, the younger ones even more so. So will the younger Valar. When making speeches, talking about official matters, or in a few specific cases -- Manwe, for example, /always/ uses High Formal style -- they'll be more formal.
Yes, I could try and convey the difference between Manwe Sulimo, High King of Arda, and Finwe Arafinwe, youngest son of the King of the Noldor, using subtle wording differences and small nuances of language. If this were being written purely for hardcore fans, I might even do that. But I've been informed that it isn't, that we should make it viewable to the general public too. As Berz said, some things have to be changed to make a good film. A good film is what I've tried to make. I'm sorry if I've disappointed some people.
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