|
Post by Maeglin on Apr 26, 2005 1:35:12 GMT -5
I consider it justified!
I found in the Grey Annals that Cel n' Cur saved Orodreth's life in the Bragollach, which I thought was very interesting. Shall I slip that into my increasingly overweight prologue, or a reference to it in the dialogue somewhere?
|
|
|
Post by Huinesoron on Apr 26, 2005 7:10:40 GMT -5
Did they, now? Another reason for him to be in debt to them. Nice to see it all coming together.
It's probably best to drop as much stuff like that into dialogue - the prologue is more for introducing Beren and Luthien, and their links to everyone. Cel, Cur and Orodreth are important, but that little fact... well, it could just as easily be a side note in the dialogue.
And now, I'll go and edit the Debate. After putting the very end of Scene 26 up as an edit to the previous post - you may want to go and look at that.
|
|
|
Post by Huinesoron on Apr 26, 2005 7:20:41 GMT -5
Scene 27. The Last Debate. Maeglin, I think it's probably somewhat different to how you envisaged it, but hopefully it will do.
~~~~~~~~~
Scene 27: The Steps Of The Mindon Eldaliéva [All of House Finwë, except for Galadriel, Finarfin and Orodreth (and, of course, Finwë) are gathered on the steps of the Mindon] Fingolfin: You would invoke Iluvatar to serve your selfish desires? [Fëanor shrugs unconcernedly] Fëanor: If we have to, to get our point across. Fingolfin: That's insane! Fëanor: Who is the king here? Fingolfin: <I>I</I> was, until you came back! What gives you the right to take this city, that I have worked so hard to preserve, and lead it into darkness? Fëanor: I claim the kingship as the firstborn son of Tirion's true king, <I>half-breed</I>, and I will fight to preserve it. Fingolfin: Oh, you'll fight? Then let us see who is the better swordsman! [Fingolfin raises his sword, intending to strike at Fëanor. Fëanor draws his own sword in a swift movement, blocking Fingolfin's blow] Finarfin: HOLD! [Finarfin and Orodreth run up the steps] Finarfin: Fingolfin, don't do this! Fighting will never solve anything! [Fingolfin presses his sword against Fëanor's, trying to make the other Noldo flinch. Fëanor doesn't move] Fingolfin: [Over his shoulder] Sometimes, Finarfin, fighting is the <I>only</I> answer. Orodreth: No, uncle, fighting is <I>never</I> the answer. [Finrod looks up from where he has been arguing with Angrod and Aegnor throughout the scene] Finrod: Orodreth! Brother, I'm glad you're here! Orodreth: Finrod! You agree with me, don't you? [Finrod shrugs] Finrod: In a perfect world, it is true, fighting would not be needed. But we aren't in a perfect world. We're in a world where our own brothers wish to abandon this city we have worked our whole lives to build. Galadriel: [Offscreen] Aye, and your sister. Finrod: Galadriel…? [Galadriel walks onto the steps. She, too, is clad in armour. She moves to stand with Angrod and Aegnor] Finrod: You would follow Fëanor on this mad chase of his? Galadriel: Follow Fëanor? [She laughs loudly] No, not him. But long have I desired to see the lands of my forefathers. If Fëanor will lead me there, well, I will take what I can. Finrod: Galadriel, have you gone insane? Galadriel: Insane, brother? No, not I. Merely mad with being confined by the Valar. Finrod: I will not let you- Galadriel: [Interrupting] Oh, you will not let me? And who are you to say such things, <I>Finrod</I>? Are you the head of House Finarfin? Finrod: No, but- Galadriel: Father! [Finarfin jumps, and stops trying to persuade Fingolfin and Fëanor to lower their swords] Orodreth: Father, please, do not get involved…<br>Galadriel: Oh, shut up, Orodreth. Father, Finrod- Finrod: [Cutting across her] Father, your daughter intends to join Fëanor in this, this act of insanity. Finarfin: Children, I beg of you, do not fight over this. Caranthir: Ah, Uncle Finarfin. Do you also think we are <I>insane</I> to wish to return to the land that is our birthright? Finrod: It is no more your birthright than Valinor is! Celegorm: Now, Finrod, don't let that Telerin blood of yours take over. You're better than that. Finrod: If it were not for Father's will I would have joined the Teleri in Alqualondë long ago. Anything to be away from Tirion when this happened. Celegorm: The Teleri, too, are now living in darkness. Who knows, perhaps we will persuade them to join us. Finrod: You will never- Finarfin: Finrod, <I>please</I>. Finrod: Apologies, Father. It's just that… well, you can <I>see</I> how they're acting. Finarfin: And I can see how you are acting, too. Please, Finrod, Celegorm spoke true – you are better than this. Fëanor: [Still glaring at Fingolfin over crossed swords] I suppose you mean, Finarfin, that he is better than <I>us</I>? [Fëanor takes a step backwards, lowering his sword so fast that Fingolfin almost falls over. Fëanor lowers his sword, completely ignoring Fingolfin, who sheathes his own weapon after a moment] Fëanor: Perhaps, half-brother, you do not agree with my words? [Finarfin nods hesitantly] Fëanor: That is, of course, your right. But answer me this. Did the Valar protect us from Morgoth's attack? [Finarfin shakes his head, still hesitant] Fingolfin: I suppose <I>you</I> could have done better, Fëanor? [Fëanor shrugs] Fëanor: I would not have released him from his chains, and then all would be well still. [Fingolfin glares at him, but cannot argue] Fëanor: Now, Finarfin. You surely bear enough love for our father that you wish to avenge his death? [Finarfin bites his lip] Finarfin: I loved him no less than you do, Fëanor, but I cannot see that a futile war against Morgoth – who escaped the grasp of both Tulkas and Oromë – will aid you in your desire for vengeance. Fëanor: Morgoth was expecting Tulkas, and he was expecting Oromë. Do you truly believe he will expect a host of Noldor? [Finarfin shakes his head slowly] Finarfin: I hear your words, Fëanor, but I council patience. In time, perhaps the Valar will see fit to send a host of their own, that we might rightfully join. Fëanor: Then they <I> do</I> hold you in thrall, Finarfin. I pity you. Fingolfin: Pity? <I>Pity</I>? I'll give you pity! [Fingolfin rushes at Fëanor, sword raised. The rest of House Finwë lift their own weapons reflexively. Fëanor jumps aside and Fingolfin's sword hits the Mindon. Fingolfin falls over] Finarfin: Fingolfin! Fingon, Turgon: Father! [Fingon and Turgon rush over to help Fingolfin up] Fingon: Father, will you not listen to what he has to say? [Turgon stiffens] Turgon: You too, Fingon? You would forsake our land as well? Fingon: I said not so, Turgon. I merely advise listening to all views before deciding. [Turgon nods, clearly not trusting him] Fëanor: My thanks, nephew. It is good to know <I>one</I> member of Fingolfin's household is willing to listen to reason. [Turgon and Fingolfin glare at him, but say nothing] Fëanor: Finarfin. Do you truly believe what you said? That the Valar will forsake their comfortable halls, their riches, their peace, however marred, for a war in which many of their… many of us elves will surely be slain? I think not so. They will cede Middle-earth to Morgoth, and stay here in Valinor under the stars. Perhaps new Lights will be raised, as the Trees were after the Lamps fell. Perhaps not. But one thing I know for sure – the Silmarils, and the last of the light of the Trees, will be forever beyond our reach. [Caranthir steps to Fëanor's side] Caranthir: Not just the Light, but our revenge also. For even should Grandfather be released from Námo's halls and rebodied, his blood is still on Morgoth's hands. Vengeance <I>will</I> be ours. Finarfin: But at what price, Caranthir? Would you forsake this city of diamonds to dwell in a village of mud? Caranthir: Thus did our mother speak to us ere we left for Formenos. As I told her, so will I tell you: Too long have the Noldor lived in Tirion upon Túna. We have grown lax in our craft. With just one city to build, and a small group of exiles, we of Formenos created something new, something different to Valmar, Tirion or Alqualondë… and yet beautiful nonetheless. With an entire land, and an entire people, I can only begin to imagine what we could create. [He looks around at the Noldor of House Finwë. All of them, even Fingolfin and Turgon, seem to be considering the idea. There is silence for a long moment.] Finrod: He speaks true, Father. Valinor is… too tame. There is no true wilderness left here. We cannot fully develop our lore. [Turgon shakes his head] Turgon: I still say we should not. Tirion has always been enough for me. Galadriel: And who are you to speak for all the Noldor? [Turgon bristles] Finarfin: Peace, daughter. Maglor: Galadriel's point, however roughly phrased, is still worth considering. Who are <I>we</I> to speak for all the Noldor? Surely, if this must be decided, it must be decided by all our people, not just us few. [Finarfin nods uncertainly. Fingolfin, too, nods. Both look at Fëanor. After a moment, he too nods and steps forward to the front of the terrace. The camera moves around behind him to show the square still packed, if not quite so full] Fëanor: People of the Noldor – my people! Will you join me in forsaking this land to seek out the old world beyond the sea? Will you abandon the comforts of Tirion, of Valinor, for an uncertain life in Middle-earth? Will you give up all you have… for a chance to create more? For a chance to hold realms of your own in the east? Will you journey forth with me to seek out new lands, or stay here where the Valar will protect you from harm, though it stifle your creativity? I ask you, Children of Ilúvatar, what do you choose? Will you stay here? Crowd: NO! Fëanor: Then will you follow me east, though the path be dark and fraught with peril? Crowd: YES! [Fëanor turns back to look at the rest of House Finwë]<br>Fëanor: The people have chosen. We will leave immediately. Finarfin: Immediately? Surely we could wait a time, to prepare further…<br>[Fëanor spins back to face the crowd] Fëanor: Will you wait here longer, to prepare? Crowd: Nay! Let us be gone! [Fëanor turns back to House Finwë, and looks smug] Finarfin: Then so be it. [Fëanor beckons to his sons, and all of House Fëanor walk down the steps, dispersing into the crowd. The rest of House Finwë are left to stand on the steps, staring after them] Finarfin: [Softly, regretfully] Then so be it…<br> ~~~~~~~~
Side note: Where in all this mess is Aradhel? All of House Finwë are named by their side in the argument, /except/ her. I've just left her either missiong or silent.
Other side note: Artanis or Galadriel? I'm thinking it would probably be better to call her Galadriel all the way through, because as far as I'm aware, there's no mention in Luthien of the change. But what do you think? I only hesitate because Artanis is a much prettier name.
|
|
|
Post by Maeglin on Apr 26, 2005 8:09:25 GMT -5
I like Galadriel, actually. The thing is there's no way I can have Thingol suddenly talk about something as trivial as a name change. I fear Artanis may have to go.
Tolkien didn't give Aredhel a role here, but I expect she would support the Feanorians from the evidence we have about their friendship. If you like, have her come in with Galadriel. Give her some more bolshy feminist lines...it would contradict canon slightly, perhaps, as Galadriel is referred to as the only woman present, but I think we can live with that.
A slight criticism-"creative talents/skills" doesn't sound right. Call it "genius", "lore", "craft", or just "skills", but I don't like creative in this context.
I think Maglor, not Celegorm, should suggest that the people should have their say. (Curufin, in a different way, would also work because of his rabble-rousing abilities.)
|
|
|
Post by Huinesoron on Apr 26, 2005 8:56:47 GMT -5
Edited to take all that into account. I think I'm just going to have Aradhel conspicuously absent. She's never been much of a decision maker as it is - she always /follows/ people. So there's no need to have her there. But maybe she was, and silent. That's up to the artists, who really should get working...
|
|
|
Post by Maeglin on Apr 26, 2005 9:13:06 GMT -5
I've been having a bit of a go at artistry, but I don't have a scanner, so it may be futile...anyway, my view is that Aredhel should be milling about with Angrod, Aegnor, Amrod and Amras. A nice crowd of underappreciated characters who begin with A...
|
|
|
Post by Huinesoron on Apr 26, 2005 9:18:28 GMT -5
[Laughs] Oh, yes, the A-mob... I had a go at making a shot of the Ainulindale, from my description, but it... kinda sucks: Yeah. I can't draw, and I can't make images on computers. I'm thinking the Artists are better off without me.
|
|
|
Post by BeautyID on Apr 26, 2005 19:47:04 GMT -5
Hmm. Well if you're going to change the 'let everyone have their say' line from Maglor to someone else, I'd say let it be Curufin. It seems like something Curufin would say, in a sneaky manner. Of course, it's also in character for Maglor, but he wouldn't have a hidden agenda like Curufin. If that makes sense at all. I say, just leave it as it is, because I like Maglor having more lines.
|
|
|
Post by Maeglin on Apr 27, 2005 1:40:29 GMT -5
I considered Curufin above, and offered the choice of him and Maglor to Huinesoron. Like you, he plumped for Maglor!
If I ever get recording equipment (not that likely) I want to double as Celegorm and Curufin...and possibly Caranthir, if we're really stretched...
|
|
|
Post by Huinesoron on Apr 27, 2005 5:59:54 GMT -5
I went for Maglor partly because I really don't like Curufin, and partly because I don't want to play around with Cel'n'Cur too much. I'll use them to put down Orodreth and Finrod, and to insult Teleri (=Sindar), but other than that I'd prefer to avoid characterising them at all, so that I don't have to worry about confusing people when they show up again in LoL.
And then there's the fact that, if I can get a microphone that works, I'd quite like to voice Maglor... and possibly even Feanor, but I'm sure /that/ part will be contested fiercely.
Actually, I'd quite like Finrod, too... and a bunch of the Valar... and Melkor... but I'll shut up before I try to claim /all/ the good parts for myself. We'll have time to sort all that out later.
|
|
|
Post by Maeglin on Apr 27, 2005 7:51:10 GMT -5
I was already intending to ask you to play Finrod, actually. And I think you should at least try out for Beren, when the time comes. My voice isn't masculine enough, and my equipment position too flaky...
|
|
|
Post by BeautyID on Apr 27, 2005 17:54:51 GMT -5
It's too bad I've got a revolting American accent, or I'd offer to voice some of the females.
|
|
|
Post by Huinesoron on Apr 27, 2005 17:56:34 GMT -5
Yay! Maeglin wants me to be Finrod! [Bounces] And Beren! [Bounces slightly less, because he's /Mortal/]
BiD, voice 'em anyway. Or some of the Valier, if you prefer. Or, if you can do a deepish voice, some of the males. Elves sound somewhat feminine at times anyway.
-- ah, why not? Scenes 28 & 29: Departing Tirion. Includes a nice moment with Fingolfin and Finarfin, and the introduction of Edrahil.
~~~~~~~~
Scene 28: Finwë's House In Tirion [Fingolfin and Finarfin are standing in the front hall of the house of the king, while their children and various members of Fingolfin's household shuffle in and out, carrying various things] Finarfin: It's too fast. We cannot be ready in twelve hours, whatever Fëanor says. Fingolfin: We should not be going in the first place. Finarfin: No…<br>[They lapse into silence. After a moment, Edrahil enters the hall from the city. He wears the liveries of Finarfin's house] Finarfin: Edrahil! Edrahil: My lord Finarfin, I bring news from the city. Fingolfin: News? What news? [Edrahil bows to Fingolfin] Edrahil: Lord Fingolfin, whatever your brother might say, the people of Tirion still look to you as their king. If you forbade this journey…<br>[Fingolfin shakes his head] Fingolfin: Perhaps I could prevent it, but they would hate me thereafter. Fëanor has great skill at manipulating minds. [This is presented almost as an insult] Edrahil: My king… if you will not forbid it, will you at least lead the march? With Fëanor as leader, I fear many ills will befall your people. Fingolfin: No, Edrahil. I will be staying here. [Fingon is walking through the hall, and turns at Fingolfin's words] Fingon: Father! No! Fingolfin: Fingon…? [Fingon runs over to his father] Fingon: Father, you must go with us. [Fingolfin stares] Fingolfin: 'Us'? You are going on this march? [Fingon nods] Fingon: Father, I have not the strength to lead the people. Would you leave them to Fëanor's will? Fingolfin: I do not wish to leave Tirion. Fingon: Yet what is Tirion without her people? The City of the Noldor will become the City of the Birds, the City of Dust, though the dust be of diamond. You could not rule here, save as a hermit, clinging to a forgotten memory. [Fingolfin shakes his head] Fingolfin: I do not… I would not… but I must. [He sighs] Then I will go, and let the people follow if they will. [Edrahil and Fingon share a glance] Edrahil: I will go forth and spread the word. Rest assured that all shall hear of it before we depart. [Edrahil walks out of the door, to the city. Fingon walks off into the house. Finarfin looks at Fingolfin] Finarfin: So you will lead your people, to death, or to glory? [Fingolfin nods] Finarfin: Then I shall accompany you. It seems fitting that House Finwë should embark on this journey together, though we do not always agree. [Fingolfin laughs shortly, and Finarfin gives him a curious glance] Fingolfin: 'Thou shalt lead and I will follow'. Little did I know where those words would lead. Finarfin: To the end of our world, and beyond. Fingolfin: Aye. The end of our world… and who can say? To a new one, perhaps, or to death. Finarfin: Wherever we go, we go together. Fingolfin: Together. [Finarfin grasps Fingolfin's hand, and the brothers embrace briefly] Finarfin: But if we're going, I must be gone! There is much to be done. [Finarfin runs out of the door, into the city. Fingolfin watches together] Fingolfin: Together… I hope it may be so.
Scene 29: The Square Below The Mindon Eldaliéva [Fëanor is standing on the steps of the Mindon again, Maedhros beside him] Fëanor: People of the Noldor! The time is come at last to cast aside this tame land and set forth into the wilderness, to forge new lives for ourselves in Middle-earth! [Scattered cheers from the crowd, but many of the people are murmuring amongst themselves. Fëanor turns to Maedhros] Fëanor: Maedhros, what's going on? Maedhros: I know not, father. They were willing to follow you to their deaths earlier… can twelve hours have changed them so much? Fingolfin: [Offscreen] No. But we can. [Fingolfin and Finarfin walk towards the steps, the crowd parting before them, their families following behind them. As they reach the top of the stair, Fingolfin bows slightly to Fëanor] Fingolfin: Son of my father, before Lord Manwë Súlimo I swore that no new grief would divide us. I forgot my vow before, but I am reminded of it now. I will journey with you to Middle-earth, the land of our father, and my people will journey with me. Fëanor: Your people…? Fingolfin: For twelve years have I ruled Tirion. Even your voice, brother, cannot undo that. [Fëanor strides to the front of the steps] Fëanor: Noldor! Who will you follow on this voyage into the east? Myself, or my brother Fingolfin? [Some part of the crowd – approximately a tenth – yell 'Fëanor!'. Another tenth remain silent. The rest mumble 'Fingolfin'. Fëanor stares at them for a moment, and then turns and glares at Fingolfin] Fëanor: How did you…? Fingolfin: Time reveals many things, Fëanor. You could not hold the people on the march with your anger. You would not get past Alqualondë.<br>[Fëanor glares for a few moments more, and then turns away] Fëanor: Fine. [To the crowd] Those of you who would follow their <I>rightful</I> king, to me! We leave immediately, and let these cowards follow if they dare! [Fëanor storms down the steps and strides towards the east gate, the tenth part of the crowd following behind him]
~~~~~~~~~~
I, personally, think there's bits in there that are a bit off. But then, I've thought that about every scene I've written so far. Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by BeautyID on Apr 27, 2005 18:10:40 GMT -5
Oh, Feanor, way to burn all your bridges. Well I can't criticise anything in this scene. It's great, as usual.
|
|
|
Post by Maeglin on Apr 28, 2005 1:39:25 GMT -5
I particularly liked the description of Tirion abandoned...and Finarfin's promise will increase the tragedy later. Good job.
|
|