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Post by Huinesoron on Nov 23, 2007 8:06:28 GMT -5
I agree completely regarding Lord Arafinwe (well, with one exception: as I understand the timing, the Fin-kids were born after the Teleri moved from Eressea to Alqualonde. So spending lots of time with the Teleri, yes, but it was down on the beach, not sailing over to the Isle. I think). It's how I should have characterised him in the beginning. The reason I didn't is that I was too focussed on the three siblings, and he was the youngest, which made him act young. I do this a lot -- in one story, I've got Galadriel acting like a little kid because she's around Finrod, despite the fact that this is post-Third Age. Then again, I /always/ have Lady Artanis act a little bit hyper. Just one of those things. Ahem. My point was, please do feel free to edit Finarfin into as much wisdom as he can hold. He will only be better for it.
Blast it all, we need to do a House Finarfin movie...
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Post by tamitha on Nov 25, 2007 12:56:46 GMT -5
*Waves* Hello everyone! I am back from my long holiday!
I agree completely regarding Lord Arafinwe......
I love it when a plan comes together!
Break time is over. I am back with a vengence and have TOO MANY READING!
Seriously, we have a bit of a dilmma. My mother is a writer also (I inherited my gift) and I consulted with her over the weekend and the following posts are the best we could come up with, which neither are ideal, but perhaps you can help after you have had a chance to review everything.
We now have a problem. We can’t very well show Melkor going from house to house spreading gossip and lies, even though that is what he did. It would take too long and it’s boring and we aren’t writing a soap opera. The easiest solution here is a VO, but we are deliberately shying away from that, so I’m proposing something unconventional, a series of quick shots, mini-scenes all in one, we will jostle the viewer around a lot, power load the viewer with a lot of information, but the viewer will be as tense as Feanor and ready for his explosion. You may not like it. To be honest I don’t really like it my-self, but I’m going to post it anyway. I need to get it out on the table so we can put our heads together and see if we can come up with a better solution. Here is what I’m going to try- Melkor alone talking out loud to himself plotting the Fall. The text says “…..Melkor laughed in his secrecy….” so it isn’t out of character for him to be talking to himself. The text claims that Manwe was aware of Feanor’s open talk of rebellion and was grieved, but said no word, so I’m thinking a private conversation between he and Varda just to acknowledge that Valar are aware of what is going on, but trying to stay out of it because “The Valar brought the Eldar to their land freely, to dwell or to depart; and though they may judge departure to be folly, they might not restrain them from it". And then, some unknown Noldor’s arguing over whether Feanor and Fingolfin should be Lord of the Noldor. Fingolfin’s children talking among themselves, repeating Melkor’s words, Finarfin’s children talking among themselves, repeating Melkor’s words and then Feanor’s sons talking among themselves repeating Melkor’s words. Ending in Feanor’s secret Forge, with the break up of his marriage to Nerdanel. All of this is to show how Melkor got around and the amount of damage he did.
I’m also going to post an alternative using VO just so you can compare the two. I know you don’t want to use VO, but maybe it will help us come up with a solution.
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Post by tamitha on Nov 25, 2007 13:06:12 GMT -5
Scene 8: (A) [Melkor is pacing in his house, rubbing his hands together, and smiling a sinister smile, he is talking out loud to himself] Melkor: Yes, yes it is all coming together perfectly. [he laughs wickedly] Feaonor’s desire for freedom burns most fierce and his heart is eager for wider realms. Already he speaks openly against the Valar. As for his half-brothers, ah well there is no love lost there. Soon the breach will be final and Feanor will be ostracized. Patience, just a little patience. He will flee to Middle Earth, with the Silmarils. He will be alone and without aid and I will destroy him and take the jewels for my-self. [Fade to] [In the square two groups obviously divided, the two leaders face off] Noldo #2: Feanor is too self-willed and arrogant! Pityacano, can’t you see that he’s obsessed with those jewels he created. He made a fatal mistake when he did not entrust them to the keeping of the Valar. They now see how selfish and greedy he is. It is their will for Fingolfin to be Lord of the Noldor. Feanor is finished regardless of his birthright. Pityacano: You are a fool! You always speak of the Valar’s will. The Valar hold us here as thralls. Feanor will lead us to freedom. He will lead us back to the lands which Iluvatar intended for us and we will take it back from the Secondborn. Noldo #2: Watch your tongue, rogue! Fingolfin is the first born of Indis and has as much right to the throne! Feanor is little more than a rebel. If he wants to go to the Outer Lands then let him go! Follow him if you like, but it is folly to speak openly against the Valar! [Fade to Manwe and Varda standing outside together at the top of Taniquetil] Varda: My husband, you look troubled. Manwe: My heart is grieved by Feanor’s open discontent. Varda: Yes, it is disturbing, but Feanor’s spirit has always burned with an eternal flame. In truth all of the Noldor have become proud. Should we give answer their grumbling? Manwe: No, my Lady, we will watch in silence. While we may judge it to be folly for them to return to the Outer Lands, we brought them here to dwell or to depart freely, we may not restrain them from it. If we speak, then it will only seem in truth that they are being held against their will. Varda: I understand, my husband. It is clear that the peace of Valinor has indeed been poisoned. [Fade to]
Scene 8(B) [Fingon, Turgon and Ardhel on a leisure ride in the forest] Aredhel: I miss hunting with the sons of Feanor. Turgon: Don’t let Father hear you say that. In fact don’t even mention Uncle Feanor’s name in his presence. After Melkor’s visit last night, Father was in rare form indeed. Aredhel: Fingon, what did Melkor say that aroused our Father to so much anger? Fingon: He told Father to beware of our Uncle Feanor and his sons. He reminded him that Feanor has small love for the children of Indis. Our Uncle is now great in the eyes of the people and the Valar because of Silmarils. Melkor said it won’t be long before our Uncle drives us forth out of Tuna, along with Uncle Finarfin and his house. Grandfather is swayed also by the Silmarils and will side with Uncle Feanor. Turgon: Do you believe his words? Fingon: If I could speak with Maedhros, I could better answer that Turgon. Aredhel: I am sure will we have answers when Father returns from the council meeting at Grandfather’s house. [Fade to]
Scene 8 ( C ) [Finrod, Orodreth, Angrod, Aegnor, and Galadriel. Finrod is sitting at the head of the table. Orodreth sits at one side of the table and Galadriel sits across from him. Angrod stands staring out the window and Aegnor is leaning in a corner with his arms folded across his chest] Angrod: I don’t like this, Finrod. I don’t like this at all. Melkor is here yet again and Father is talking to him. Galadriel: Well, what if it’s true? What if what he says about the far away land is true? What if we could each rule our own realm? Aegnor: I think our greater concern is Uncle Feanor and that dark brood of his. Melkor told Father they intend to drive us out of Tuna! They think Father is weak, but he will not sit idly by and allow Uncle Feanor to disinherit us. Finrod: Father is very wise. I think we should all do well to hold our peace, until we see what his decisions are after the secret council at Grandfather’s house. We will do as he says, no more and no less. If only I could speak with Maedhros…… Oredreth: [disgustedly] Maedhros, Maedhros! It is always the same with you, Finrod. Maedhros is as fey as his Father and his brothers as you will soon see, my misguided brother. [Fade to]
Scene 8 (D) [Maedhros, Maglor, Caranthir and the twins are lounging beside a stream in the dwindling light of Laurelin. Maedhros is sitting on a large rock, skipping stones across the water, Maglor is softly playing his harp, some melancholy tune, Caranthir is stretched out on his side, propped up on one elbow, the twins are sitting attentively watching Maedhros, they seem very concerned] Amrod: So Maedhros, what do think? Where do you think all of this is headed? Maedhros: I don’t know. All I know is that Melkor told Father that our Uncles are plotting to overthrow Grandfather as Lord of the Noldor and take away our right to the throne as the elder line. Amras: But that makes no sense. Why would they do that? Maedhros: Oh, please, stop being so naïve, Amras. As if there hasn’t always been strife between our Father and his half brothers. But, they will never forgive Father for putting them to an open shame with the Silmarils, the day of the festival. Caranthir: It isn’t just that. The Valar behind this. Melkor told Father that they are angry with him for not giving them the Silmarils as a gift. They are in favor of taking the kingship away from Grandfather and the house of Feanor. And it isn’t just Melkor, others are saying the same. I have heard them, whispering about us behind our backs. Maedhros: I wish I could speak with Finrod, but things are in such a state now that not only are we forbidden to see our cousins, but our Uncles have forbidden their children to see us as well. Amrod: I never thought I would see the day when Uncle Fingolfin would keep his children from us. Caranthir: [throws a rock in Maglor’s general direction] Maglor, please, can’t you ever put that thing down. The music you play these days is so depressing. It annoys me. Maglor: [mumbles] No more so than you annoy me. Caranthir: [jumps to his feet] What did you say? Maedhros: Carathir! Go to the secret forge and help Father and Celegorm and Curufin. I don’t know why you came with us in the first place. Maglor and I can entertain the twins. [glaring at the twins] If you two weren’t so reckless we could all be helping Father at the forge, but as it is he doesn’t want the two of you there, nor does he trust you to be left to your own devices.. [Snap to] [Caranthir is on his way to Feanor’s secret forge. As he is riding toward the forge, Melkor steps out of the trees into his path as if appearing out of nowhere. We see him speaking to Caranthir urgently and then Melkor swirls around and goes back into the forest. He has style. But Caranthir heads to the forge in a full gallop. Upon arrival he dismounts before the horse has even come to a full stop and runs to the door. He pulls up short and takes a breath, then carefully opens the door, knowing better than to burst in.] Caranthir: [excited and urgent] Father! Father! You must come quick! I have urgent news from Melkor! [Nerdanel who is there watching her sons and husband looks up suspiciously] Feanor: How many times do I have to tell you to stay away from him Caranthir! Why must you insist on going against me! Caranthir: But Father, this you will want to know. Grandfather has called a secret council and your half-brothers are there speaking to Grandfather against you and our house this very moment! Feanor: [momentarily freezes and stares in fury at Caranthir, then he begins to arm himself and to put on his helm] We will see about that! Fingolfin and Finarfin have gone to far! I want all of you to arm yourselves, now! Celegorm, take a fresh horse and go get your brothers and arm them as well. Caranthir, you stay here and guard the forge, Curufin take your mother home and guard the house. Nerdanel: Feanor! What are you doing? I beg you to stop this folly before it is too late! Feanor: Nerdanel, it is already too late! Nerdanel: Feanor, please…… Feanor: Silence! Nerdanel, the time for talking is past. I must go to my Father’s house and put and end to this once and for all. I will hear no more! Nerdanel: [She steps between him and the door and puts her hands on his arms to hold him back. She looks him deep in the eyes, searchingly] Then, do my words hold no more meaning for you? Feanor: [pulls away from her and turns his back on her] No, Nerdanel, they do not. Nerdanel: If this be so, then I shall return the house of my own father. Feanor: [refuses to look at her, keeps his back to her] Do what you must, but my sons will remain with me. Nerdanel: As I supposed they shall. You have grown fey, Feanor and you have corrupted all of our sons save Maglor, but even he shall remain, for he will not be parted from Maedhros. [As she leaves, Feanor’s gaze meets with Curufin’s and he motions with his head for him to go with his mother and escort her to her destination. Celegorm walks out with him to go after his brothers. Only Caranthir remains and all are fully armed and wearing their helms.]
The idea is that the viewer is not certain that Fëanor has made a sword, or that swords even exist (again), until the moment he draws on Fingolfin (see scene 10)]
If you want to keep this idea then some obviously we can just change the dialogue enough so that Feanor does not tell the boys to arm themselves and we do not show him arming himself, my intent throughout this was to steadily keep cranking up the volume (or tension level) to the point of Feanor bursting into the meeting and drawing on his brother and releasing the pressure.
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Post by tamitha on Nov 25, 2007 14:20:43 GMT -5
Alternate Scene 8 using VO instead.
Scene 8 (A) [Show clips of Melkor talking with different groups of Noldor in the square] Galadriel: VO Melkor’s lust for the Silmarils was great and ever he sought to end the friendship of the elves and the Valar, therefore he sowed lies which were spread among the Noldor. [Show Pityacano and other Noldor speaking with Feanor, and then show Feanor on a huge rock, standing above many Noldor gathered in the square, speaking with urgence and power] Galadriel: VO Feanor burned with a new flame of desire for freedom and wider realms and he began to speak openly against the Valar claiming that the elves were being held in thraldom and that he would lead the Noldor to freedom if they would but follow him. [Show Melkor in his house pacing and rubbing his hand together and laughing wickedly] Galadriel: VO But Melkor laughed in his secrecy, for to that mark his lies had been addressed, hating Feanor above all. [Show a clip of Melkor visiting Feanor’s home and being thrown out by Feanor, show a clip of Melkor visiting Fingolfin and Finarfin who listen to his words] Galadriel: VO Then Melkor set new lies abroad. Whispers came to Feanor that Fingolfin and his sons were plotting to usurp the leadership of Finwe and supplant the elder line of Feanor by the leave of the Valar, because he had not entrusted the Silmarils to their keeping. But Fingolfin and Finarfin were told that Feanor had little love for them and that he had become great in the eyes of the Valar and his Father because of the Silmarils. They were told that Feanor and his sons intended to drive them forth from Tuna. [Show Feanor, Fingolfin, and Finarfin each separately in their own secret forges along with their children, developing weapons and shields displaying tokens of their houses] Galadriel: VO When Melkor saw that his lies had taken root and that anger and pride were awake in the Noldor, he began to whisper to them to make weapons, thus with lies and evil whisperings and false counsel Melkor kindled the hearts of the Noldor to strife. [Show Manwe and Varda on Taniquetil, talking. Manwe’s face is very sad and Varda looks very concerned.] Galadriel: VO The unrest of the Noldor was not hidden from the Valar, but Manwe watched and spoke no word, for the Elves had been brought to Aman freely, to dwell or to depart, and though they may judge departure to be folly, they might not restrain them from it. [Show Finwe standing out on the patio/balcony of his mansion staring out over the square looking very concerned] Galadriel: Lord Finwe was troubled and he summoned a council of all his lords, but little did he know that this very act would lead to the breaking of the peace in Valinor.
Scene 8 (B) [Maedhros, Maglor, Caranthir and the twins are lounging beside a stream in the dwindling light of Laurelin. Maedhros is sitting on a large rock, skipping stones across the water, Maglor is softly playing his harp, some melancholy tune, Caranthir is stretched out on his side, propped up on one elbow, the twins are sitting attentively watching Maedhros, they seem very concerned] Amrod: So Maedhros, what do think? Where do you think all of this is headed? Maedhros: I don’t know. All I know is that Melkor told Father that our Uncles are plotting to overthrow Grandfather as Lord of the Noldor and take away our right to the throne as the elder line. Amras: But that makes no sense. Why would they do that? Maedhros: Oh, please, stop being so naïve, Amras. As if there hasn’t always been strife between our Father and his half brothers. But, they will never forgive Father for putting them to an open shame with the Silmarils, the day of the festival. Caranthir: It isn’t just that. The Valar are the ones behind this. Melkor told Father that they are angry with him for not giving them the Silmarils as a gift. They are in favor of taking the kingship away from Grandfather and the house of Feanor. And it isn’t just Melkor, others are saying the same. I have heard them, whispering about us behind our backs. Maedhros: I wish I could speak with Finrod, but things are in such a state now that not only are we forbidden to see our cousins, but our Uncles have forbidden their children to see us as well. Amrod: I never thought I would see the day when Uncle Fingolfin would keep his children from us. Caranthir: [throws a rock in Maglor’s general direction] Maglor, please, can’t you ever put that thing down. The music you play these days is so depressing. It annoys me. Maglor: [mumbles] No more so than you annoy me. Caranthir: [jumps to his feet] What did you say? Maedhros: Carathir! Go to the secret forge and help Father and Celegorm and Curufin. I don’t know why you came with us in the first place. Maglor and I can entertain the twins. [glaring at the twins] If you two weren’t so reckless we could all be helping Father at the forge, but as it is he doesn’t want the two of you there, nor does he trust you to be left to your own devices.. [Snap to] [Caranthir is on his way to Feanor’s secret forge. As he is riding toward the forge, Melkor steps out of the trees into his path as if appearing out of nowhere. We see him speaking to Caranthir urgently and then Melkor swirls around and goes back into the forest. He has style. But Caranthir heads to the forge in a full gallop. Upon arrival he dismounts before the horse has even come to a full stop and runs to the door. He pulls up short and takes a breath, then carefully opens the door, knowing better than to burst in.] Caranthir: [excited and urgent] Father! Father! You must come quick! I have urgent news from Melkor! [Nerdanel who is there watching her sons and husband looks up suspiciously] Feanor: How many times do I have to tell you to stay away from him Caranthir! Why must you insist on going against me! Caranthir: But Father, this you will want to know. Grandfather has called a secret council and your half-brothers are there speaking to Grandfather against you and our house this very moment! Feanor: [momentarily freezes and stares in fury at Caranthir, then he begins to arm himself and to put on his helm] We will see about that! Fingolfin and Finarfin have gone to far! I want all of you to arm yourselves, now! Celegorm, take a fresh horse and go get your brothers and arm them as well. Caranthir, you stay here and guard the forge, Curufin take your mother home and guard the house. Nerdanel: Feanor! What are you doing? I beg you to stop this folly before it is too late! Feanor: Nerdanel, it is already too late! Nerdanel: Feanor, please…… Feanor: Silence! Nerdanel, the time for talking is past. I must go to my Father’s house and put and end to this once and for all. I will hear no more! Nerdanel: [She steps between him and the door and puts her hands on his arms to hold him back. She looks him deep in the eyes, searchingly] Then, do my words hold no more meaning for you? Feanor: [pulls away from her and turns his back on her] No, Nerdanel, they do not. Nerdanel: If this be so, then I shall return the house of my own father. Feanor: [refuses to look at her, keeps his back to her] Do what you must, but my sons will remain with me. Nerdanel: As I supposed they shall. You have grown fey, Feanor and you have corrupted all of our sons save Maglor, but even he shall remain, for he will not be parted from Maedhros. [As she leaves, Feanor’s gaze meets with Curufin’s and he motions with his head for him to go with his mother and escort her to her destination. Celegorm walks out with him to go after his brothers. Only Caranthir remains and all are fully armed and wearing their helms.]
The idea is that the viewer is not certain that Fëanor has made a sword, or that swords even exist (again), until the moment he draws on Fingolfin (see scene 10)]
If you want to keep this idea then some obviously we can just change the dialogue enough so that Feanor does not tell the boys to arm themselves and we do not show him arming himself, my intent throughout this was to steadily keep cranking up the volume (or tension level) to the point of Feanor bursting into the meeting and drawing on his brother and releasing the pressure.
I know it needs a lot of work, but like I said I had to get it out here so we could work on it. We could make 8 (B) Scene 9 instead, so we can get our numbering sequence back on track. Regardless of what we cut or change I'd like to keep the last part because it sets up Feanor to go charging into the meeting and shows the break up of his marriage.
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Post by Huinesoron on Nov 25, 2007 18:57:16 GMT -5
Oh my goodness... on the TOO MUCH WORDS front you really have surpassed yourself this time.
Okay. I was a bit wary when reading your description, but on reading over the proposed scenes, I think they could actually work (high praise, indeed! :P).
As to which... as you've noted, I really would prefer to avoid voiceovers. So I propose that we put the full-length scene in for now, but keep the V/O on file in case we need to shorten it later.
I'm not going to put it up now (the hour grows late, see), but there's a few changes I will need to make -- I'm noting them here for my benefit as well as yours.
-The debate over who should be Lord of the Noldor. This seems to be bordering on treasonous -- at this point, there's no reason for anyone to think that Finwe can't rule forever. From the voiceover I gather your intent was that people think Finwe and Feanor are to be overthrown in favour of Fingolfin, but that's not clear in the full-length. I'll try and fix it (or you can!).
-Use of Pityacano's name. I'd be absolutely delighted to do this, but throwing non-canon characters into films and /referring/ to them by name is always a risk. It has a stench of arrogance about it, I guess (and as he's my character, with my name, I'm the one who'd get air-freshener posted to me).
-Reverse of the above, Noldo #2 obviously needs a name too. :P
-The last line (Orodreth's) in the Finarfinion scene is very out of character for Orodreth. However, it's perfect for Lady Artanis -- our young, impetuous Galadriel with her absolute hatred for House Feanor. So I'll just switch the name.
-Possible shortening of the Feanarion scenelet, to keep the momentum going.
-Caranthir speaks to Melkor? Well, okay, I don't know of any reference that says he doesn't, and he is 'the Dark', but it still seems a little out of place.
-Arming House Feanor. You've written it very well, but I still (stubbornly) want to keep the very presence of swords a secret until the actual Breaking of the Peace of Valinor. It would be very easy to hide -- change 'arm' to 'prepare' or 'ready', and either use camera angles to hide them or just don't put swords in for the end of the scene.
-Scene numbering sequence... is utterly unimportant. For a long time in the making of the script, the entire latter half was unnumbered -- the Kinslaying was one of the last scenes written.
I'll get to editing properly tomorrow. If you have any comments on my comments, feel free.
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Post by tamitha on Nov 25, 2007 21:45:35 GMT -5
-The debate over who should be Lord of the Noldor. This seems to be bordering on treasonous -- at this point, there's no reason for anyone to think that Finwe can't rule forever. From the voiceover I gather your intent was that people think Finwe and Feanor are to be overthrown in favour of Fingolfin, but that's not clear in the full-length. I'll try and fix it (or you can!).The text claims "Ever Melkor found some ears that would heed him, and some tongues that would enlarge what they had heard. [...] Visions he would conjure in their hearts of the mighty realms that they could have ruled at their own will, in power and freedom in the East..... [...] High Princes were Feanor and Fingolfin, the elder sons of Finwe, honoured by all in Aman, but now they grew proud and jealous each of his rights and his possessions. Then Melkor set new lies abroad in Eldamar,and whispers came to Feanor that Fingolfin and his sons were plotting to usurp the leadership of Finwe and of the elder line of Feanor and to supplant them by the leave of the Valar; for the the Valar were ill-pleased that the Silmarils lay in Tirion and were not committed to their keeping. But to Fingolfin and Finarfin it was said: 'Beware! Small love has the proud son of Miriel ever had for the children of Indis. Now he has become great, and has his father in his hand. It will not be long before he drives you forth from Tuna!' [.....] For Feanor began openly to speak words of rebellion against the Valar, crying aloud that he would depart from Valinor back to the world without, and would deliver the Noldor from thraldom, if they would follow him."I drew the dialogue from these lines in the book. Finwe really did not say much one way or the other. Some of the Noldor were desiring to go back to Middle-Earth, thanks to Melkor and Feanor was offering to lead them, so he wasn't necessarily trying to take away his Father's kingship, but the impression is Finwe would remain King in Aman, but the Noldor who followed Feanor would be accepting him as their King. (Another sundering of the Elves) On the other hand it is said that "whispers came to Feanor....." so this I do not think came to him directly from Melkor, but from others who were in favor of Fingolfin becoming King and thinking that Finwe's silence on the matter was a show of faith to step down to his son Feanor and allow him to lead them back to Middle-Earth. That is a lot of reading between the lines to glean some understanding, but bringing that out in dialogue is another matter. It is for certain the people were debating on whether to follow Feanor or Fingolfin---perhaps they had lost faith in Finwe as their King because of his silence as the two jockeyed for position. I will defer to you and let you fix the dialogue. I have yet to be disappointed and you always make what I was trying to say sound so much better and colorful. Use of Pityacano's nameWasn't sure about this. Initially did not use the name, then inserted it on the off chance you did want to use it. Leave it out. It's better I think. We can't have you getting an air-freshner posted to you. That would never do! For shame, the very thought of it! The last line (Orodreth's) in the Finarfinion scene is very out of character for Orodreth. Yes, yes, you are quite correct. I did not think it in his character when I wrote it, but then neither did I think it in character for Angrod, or Aegnor. I originally thought to have him slam his fist on the table and jump up in anger, but I knew for sure that would be totally out of character for him, so I toned it down to just an expression of disgust. Did not even cross my mind to give these lines to Galadriel. My mind is tainted by the image and character of Galadriel in the movie LotR. She was strong, she was wise and yet she was gentle and demure. I have a hard time re-shaping her into this context. But you are quite correct. She is very impetuous. Make the switch, it will work well. Caranthir speaks to Melkor?Please fix this too. My problem was that the text said, "And, Feanor made a secret forge, of which not even Melkor was aware; and there he tempered fell swords for himself and for his sons,......" So, if Melkor is not even aware of the secret forge, I cannot very well have him show up at a forge he doesn't even know exists to deliver the message to Feanor in person. I was at a loss and then thought, okay well, Maedhros just sent Caranthir home to Daddy because he is acting ugly and so why not make him be the messenger. We could always have someone else deliver the message, or Caranthir could accidentally ride up on Fingolfin's children who are riding in the forest and overhear Aredhel's comment about the secret council meeting. I don't know. Surprise me. I trust you. Again do as you will with keeping the swords a secret, I had already written the scene when I saw your notation, so I will defer to you in making the necessary adjustments. The hard part was fitting the pieces of the puzzle together in the first place. Please feel free to polish it up. I welcome the assistance and beg your forgiveness for posting so much all at once, but in this case it was really unavoidable seeing as I was presenting to you two different versions of the same scene. I'm glad you liked it. I truly did work very hard on it. I spent an entire day developing the dialogue and then Mom helped me arrange it so it would flow smoothly, in spite of all the jumping around.
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Post by Huinesoron on Nov 28, 2007 13:11:44 GMT -5
(I am working on this. I'm just doing it slowly)
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Post by tamitha on Nov 28, 2007 21:23:08 GMT -5
*Sigh of relief* Hello! I was beginning to get worried. I thought maybe you weren't speaking to me anymore. No, seriously, I started worrying if you and/or your family were okay or if something might be wrong. Very glad to hear from you! Sorry I presented you with such a difficult task. Now I feel guilty. I've been toying around with the next scene. I have the day off tomorrow so I will try to get it ready to be posted, but then I won't work on any more after that. I will lose my internet connection 12/3 and it would drive me crazy to post a scene and then have to wait possibly until January to find out your response. If for some odd reason or other I don't find my way back in January, my e-mail address is not hidden, so I can be tracked down there. As long as I have internet access I check my e-mail everyday and as soon as I get back in school I can use the computers at the library. In the meantime I anxiously await to see what miracle you have performed. If it is taking you a while to work out the kinks then I am sure it will something well worth the wait.
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Post by tamitha on Nov 29, 2007 10:49:19 GMT -5
I am not trying to pull you away from what you are currently working on. I just wanted to post it, before I lose my connection and won't be able to.
We have a bit of a problem here since in the previous scene I had it known to Fingolgin and Finarfin that there was to be a council implying that they were invited, but not Feanor-basing this on the more previous scene where Finarfin spoke to Finwe in regard to stopping Feanor before all hope for peace and unity were lost forever, but such as it is I do like the idea of Fingolfin and Finarfin bursting in- perhaps they were aware of the meeting and had plotted between the two of them to “crash” the party? Works for me.
“…with perhaps a slight bias towards the male.” Really? Hmm, are we sure about this?
“…who move aside quickly to let him through.” Aren’t they all sitting down in chairs? Wouldn’t they just stay seated as he walked through? Or would they get up and move their chairs out of his way too? Or are they all standing and we do away with the sitting in chairs? Your call, I’m okay with however you want to do it. I just think if they are sitting they will stay sitting and he will just like walk through, the same way Fingolgin ran through.
I tinkered with your fight scene just a bit. Not too much, just a little adjusting.
Scene 10A: Finwë's House in Tirion AKA: The plot starts to move on [Fingolfin arrives at the home of Finarfin, he is clad in armour, with a shield on his arm. He rears his horse outside of Finarfin’s door and calls out to him.] Fingolfin: Come my brother, it is time. The council has already begun. [Finarfin appears at the door, also clad in armor. Galadriel comes running from the stables leading her father’s steed and bringing him his shield. Finarfin reaches to take the reins from her. After he mounts she hands his shield up to him.] Finarfin: Thank you, Galadriel. I warn you again, you must stay here with your brothers. Do not attempt to follow in secret. I do not know what we will find at the home of your Grandfather. [Speaking to Fingolfin as they ride out towards Finwe’s house] Finarfin: I have grave concerns about going to this council meeting uninvited and unannounced, my brother. We know not whether Feanor is already there. Perhaps this is a conspiracy between Father and Feanor to decide our fate. Fingolfin: I do not know in truth whether Feanor has turned our Father’s heart away from us, but I, for one do not intend to be driven forth from Tuna without defense. We must go forth boldly and make every effort to persuade Father and the council members to restrain Feanor and to remain here in Valinor in peace. Finarfin: I am by your side as ever, Fingolfin. I just think we would have better chosen to speak to Father in private, before the council meeting. How can we expect anyone to hear our plea if we show ourselves as eager for mischief as Feanor? Fingolfin: Have you not already tried speaking to Father in private? Even I failed to see the wisdom of your foresight the day of the festival, but regardless of the outcome, we must remain faithful to the will of our Father and the council. [Fade to] [Open on a great hall, reminiscent of the one in Valmar. Finwë is seated on a dais, on a throne, slightly above the rest of the hall. The Council of Finwë, filled with notable older Noldor such as Noldo #1, Mahtan, and sundry others – NOT any of the House of Finwë, or any Vanyar, Ainur, Teleri etc – sit in a rough semi-circle on the main floor, on chairs. They are a roughly even mix of male and female, with perhaps a slight bias towards the male. Indis is nowhere in sight] Finwë: I wish to thank you all for coming to this council on such short notice, but my heart grows heavy and upon my mind there lies a great weight. The unrest of the city can no longer go unnoticed. The time has come for decisions to be made, decisions which should not be left to the young ones who speak of things they do not understand. Pityacano: It is the sons of Indis that are the cause of the unrest, my King, with their talk of overthrowing you and supplanting Feanor. It is time to leave Aman and return to the land of our inheritance. [Murmurings of agreement from the crowd.] Mahtan: Silence! You sit too long in the council of Melkor, my friend. The sons of Indis bear no fault. Never have I heard these words pass from their lips. It is only foul rumors to kindle the wrath of Feanor. Noldo #2: Feanor, indeed! He is the source of the unrest in the city, with his rebellious speeches, declaring that the Valar brought us here as thralls! Lord Finwe, I beseech thee, you must refrain the son of Miriel, before all the Noldor suffer grave consequences. Finwë: While it is indeed true that my son, Fëanor, is a little unsettled right now, there is no need to believe that he is anything other than a victim of these troubled times. Mahtan: Victim? He is no victim. It is those nearest to him who are made the victims, my dear Nerdanel being the first of many. Finwe: Mahtan, I think that will be quite enough! I have not called this council for us to quarrel about my sons. We must come together and decide rationally whether we will remain in Aman peacefully or whether we will yield to the growing number who wish to return the Outer Lands. [The doors at the back of the hall slam open. Everyone turns to look as Fingolfin and Finarfin enter side by side. Fingolfin runs up to the dais and bows before him, then stands boldly before him. Finarfin stands just inside a few paces, but remains near the door, observing the gathering, accessing the mood, and looking for signs of Feanor’s presence.] Fingolfin: King, and Father, will you not now restrain the pride of Fëanor? You are King of the Noldor, not he. You were the one who spoke to our people long ago, bidding them accept the summons of the Valar. You it was who led the Noldor along the long road through Middle-earth to the light of Valinor. Long have we enjoyed the peace of living in this safe haven. If you do not now regret the wisdom of coming across the great sea, then by your authority demand his silence, and you have two sons, at least, that will still honour your words. [The camera is currently positioned so as not to be able to see the door. The doors slam back once more, with far more force. From the door, off-screen. Angry, really living up to the name Spirit Of Fire] Feanor: So it is, even as I guessed. [Pan quickly around to show Fëanor standing in the doorway. Laurelin is currently in her zenith, making the sky gold, and Fëanor's armour reflects this. He is wearing a large, ornate helmet, his shield and armour, and has a sword at his side, sheathed. Really play up the visuals here – this is the Spirit of Fire in full flame. Hold for a few moments. Finarfin steps forward and extends a hand in an attempt to stay him, but he violently shoves him to the side, before he strides forward, through the middle of the council, who move aside quickly to let him through. Follow him with the camera] Fëanor: Am I to be betrayed by own father? I had thought, at least, that he would remain at my side. Though it comes as no surprise that the children of Indis would not respect my right to first place at my father's side. My half-brother would be before me, with my father, yet again, even in this decision, as in all other matters. [Fëanor draws his sword. Another dramatic moment here. Try to point it out with the music – what we are seeing is the first ever breaking of the Peace of Valinor] Fëanor: Get thee gone, and take thy due place! [Fingolfin bows to Finwë, and without a glance to Feanor, begins to exit at a walking pace. At the door, Fingolfin turns] Fingolfin: Farewell, father. Please consider what I said. [Fingolfin exits. As they are leaving Finarfin mumbles to Fingolfin] Finarfin: I told you this was a bad idea. Now look.... [Fëanor is furious, and stalks across the hall, pushing Council members out of the way as he goes, and out of the door] Scene 10B: The Square Below The Mindon Eldaliéva [Start with a wide shot of the crowded square, the Tower of the King with its lamp, and Finwë's House. Spiral down into the crowd, to where Fëanor is pushing through towards Fingolfin and Finarfin. Follow Fëanor's progress until he steps out in front of Fingolfin and holds the point of his sword to Fingolfin's chest, forcing him to stop or impale himself] Fëanor: See, half-brother! This is sharper than thy tongue. Try but once more to usurp my place and the love of my father, and maybe it will rid the Noldor of one who seeks to be the master of thralls! [Fingolfin opens his mouth to speak, but shuts it defiantly. Stepping to the side, he tries to depart, but Fëanor swings the sword to point once again at his heart] Fëanor: I did not give you leave to depart. [Suddenly there is a great rushing wind, and the crowd falls back, away from where the two elves are standing. Even Finarfin moves away, but his worried face can be seen at the front of the crowd when appropriate. The dust in the square (which is diamond, remember) spirals up to man-high, and then falls away to reveal Námo Mandos. He points at Fëanor] Námo: Fëanor, son of Finwë, you have wilfully broken the peace of Valinor, and drawn sword upon your kinsman. You are summoned to appear before the Valar at the gates of Valmar in three days time to answer for all your words and deeds. [Námo turns and walks into the crowd, who part before him.]
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Post by Huinesoron on Nov 29, 2007 17:18:24 GMT -5
(It's not that it's difficult, actually -- it's that the time in which I was usually doing the editing, my lunchtimes, are now taken up by other things which don't allow me computer access. So I've not done very much because, well, I've not done very much. And I might be out of town this Saturday... but I suppose I can do it on Sunday. So. Probably by the end of the weekend I'll've edited the thing. And the new thing. Both things)
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Post by tamitha on Nov 29, 2007 19:10:49 GMT -5
Okay, I understand. Please don't feel like I'm rushing you. If you can get to it that will be great, but if you can't, well then you can't. Real life has a funny way of squeezing out fun time. That's why I've enjoyed this time to fullest, because soon fun time will be limited for me too. I've heard from a friend that I'm going to have like 60 pages of material to read every night, not including other homework. Arrgghhh! One of my friends is going to try to help me get hooked up with some temporary mobile internet, I'll find out this weekend. If not maybe I can try to get to the library and at least check in. After I get settled, if I see I can get to the library on regular basis, I'll try to do a little at time and save it to a disc, the I can copy and paste it to the forum. We'll see how everything goes. If you can just find the time to let me know if you are okay or not with the latest scene, that will be good enough. If I have to wait to see the edited version, then I have to wait. It's just a little thing called life.
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Post by Huinesoron on Nov 30, 2007 5:57:29 GMT -5
Okay! I have some time, I'm doing some editing.
-Alterations to 8(a). Clarification of what in Aman is going on -- Noldo #2 now specifies that 'It is their will for Fingolfin to be Lord of the Noldor, not his doting father, and certainly not his half-brother!', playing on the idea that some of the Noldor think Finwe has grown too obsessed with Feanor's Silmarilli -- which, indeed, Fingon and Melkor have said. -Also, Manwe-Varda dialogue altered to make the King more optimistic. Now Varda fears that the Peace of Valinor is broken, rather than agreeing that it is. -Aredhel altered to be more petulant (in line with her 'I wanna go see my cousins and I won't shut up until you let me out!' ranting in Gondolin), which makes her last line stand out a bit... I need to work on that some more. -Eeeeee House Finarfin. -A couple of small alterations, but not much. The only remaining hole in this scene is that Orodreth now has no lines (but he always was the quiet one -- "Oh, okay, Curufin, you can take over Narog while I mope uselessly" "Oh, okay, Turin, ditto". -House Feanor - I may be wrong, but I don't think any of this lot ever spoke civilly to Melkor. So I've edited it to have most of the knowledge we're told is from him be rumours, instead. -Except Caranthir. He's not above directly reporting what Melkor has said, but won't talk to him on-screen. -Some shortening of the scene. -Some alteration of lines; Melkor still speaks to Caranthir, but in disguise. No arms are seen directly. Nerdanel (oh, Nerdanel) is a bit sadder. I've kept the line about only Maglor being uncorrupted, but I don't know about it - seems a lot like favouritism from Nerdanel. -8(d) changed to 9 because it's long enough, and I'm lazy enough that it seems like a good idea. :P
I haven't updated the master copy yet, but I will, once I've fiddled Scene 10 as well.
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Post by tamitha on Nov 30, 2007 9:41:51 GMT -5
Just a quick note from me to you: I messed up with the House of Feanor scene. I thought the sceret council would be held a "night" (or by the light of Telperion), however in scene 10 you had in the middle of the day to show off Feanor's Spirit of Fire, so in what is now to be scene 9 where I had the boys lounging around the stream I said "by the dwindling light of Laurelin" indicating afternoon. The now should be "by the rising light of Laurelin" indicating morning unless you have changed that entirely anyway, in which case this post is utterly useless. I am excited to see the final results. I'll check in later tonight and see what if any surprises you have in store for me.
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Post by tamitha on Dec 1, 2007 12:55:53 GMT -5
Farewell my friends! I'm off on my own adventure. Off to Rivendell to see the Elves and be educated in really important stuff like Foreign Policy and International Law. I will miss you all very much, but especially you, Huinesoren. It is very difficult for writers to find someone to connect with, we are by nature hermits, and only a writer can truly understand another writer. I will check in Sunday night one last time. I will actually be leaving on Monday morning, but most likely this will be my last post, at least until I can arrange to get back on-line again. Take care of yourselves! I really enjoyed working on the script with you. I hope to join up with you later and pick up where we left off. I already have ideas for the next scene, but alas it must wait, for the time of departure is upon me. Good-bye for now! And hS said, "Thank, Manwe! No mooorrrreee TOO MANY READING!" PS: I've kept the line about only Maglor being uncorrupted, but I don't know about it - seems a lot like favouritism from Nerdanel.
Not so much. I understand your position, but the intent is not favoritism, as much as a statement of fact, it's there to shore up Maglor's character. I think that since Nerdanel will no longer be an active character it is not going to be an issue, so if you please, yes, I would like to keep it, but if you feel strongly about it then I won't argue.
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Post by Huinesoron on Dec 2, 2007 15:07:10 GMT -5
(Haven't done Scene 10 yet, but I'll put Scenes 8-9 up RIGHT NOW...)
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