Post by Glorfindel on Dec 31, 2007 11:19:34 GMT -5
I just was wondering something that came across my mind a while back but I always forget to post it. I was going to post this in the Miscellaneous section but I thought it may get seen quicker here and it does pertain to FOTN.
For those in the know of Eldar lore and customs, do they eat meat? I can't recall reading it and in LOTR, Legolas does not. I didn't know if it were true for all kindreds. I've read that the Valar eat the fruit and stuff of plants like the children of Iluvatar.
The confusing part for me is that some Eldar are listed as hunters. I again know that they hunt the enemy and fell beast as Orome did but it is in the FOTN script that Finwe's grandkids are hunting in Aman. What are they hunting? Is it catch and release or are they eating flesh?
Another thing that is neither here or there, but is there an instances where an Eldar male weds a human female? There are of coarse the famous few examples of female elves marrying male humans. Do you think the elf men think the human women are not worthy are attractive? Maybe they just want to save themselves the grief of losing their mate from old age or sickness. Is there a libido difference between the two male types? The only male elf marrying other than his own would be Thingol and Elrond's brother; Thingol married above himself (maia) and Elros did so after he chose to be human.
Hopefully hS will come and respond to this soon. He has the Law and Customs of the Eldar. I am the guilty party who put the hunting trip into the script. I grew up hunting with my father. We hunted deer, rabbit, squirrel, quail, pheasant.
The Silmarillion says " The sons of Fingolgfin were Fingon,......Turgon..... their sister Aredhel the White. She was younger.....and loved much to ride and hunt in the forests. There she was often in the company of the sons of Feanor, her kin; but to none was her heart's love given." Then later she whined and cried to Turgon in Gondolin begging to be released so she could go hunting with the sons of Feanor. I'm assuming they weren't hunting fell beasts when they were in Aman. I assumed that it was the sportsmanship. Of course Daddy and I ate what we killed, but there are plenty of people who hunt for trophy. I didn't think about whether or not the Eldar were eating their kill. I was thinking that they loved the sport of it, and were delighting in their skill with the bow.
I didn't think about whether or not the Eldar were eating their kill. I was thinking that they loved the sport of it, and were delighting in their skill with the bow.
If that holds true, then they would "kill" for sport? It's not a big deal for me but I just what my mind straight on the issue so when editing/writing it won't become an issue of inconsistency or "non-canon" fodder. I guess when hS returns, he will let us know.
Last Edit: Jan 2, 2008 9:41:20 GMT -5 by Glorfindel
Maybe I'm just an idiot. hS and I have often said "We are authors, not screenwriters." There is so little dialog in Silm and so much description. I am trying my best to read between the lines and invent dialog, but maybe this just isn't my fortie and I need to go back to writing books and stories and poetry and leave the screenwriting to the professionals. But in light of the fact that no one was doing anything when I showed up, I thought I'd give it a go.
Another thing that is neither here or there, but is there an instances where an Eldar male weds a human female?
There is one instance where it didn't happen, but could have. That's the case of Aegnor (son of Finarfin) and the mortal woman Andreth of the House of Beor (a fairly close relative of Beren). They were very much in love, but Aegnor was an idiot decided not to pursue it. And then went and got himself killed in the Sudden Flame anyway, so it became moot.
However, I recall speculation, I forget if it's somewhere online or actually from the canon, that a human woman would be unable to bear a half-elven child; the drain would kill her. Remember, it killed Miriel, and she was of the Noldor. But other than Aegnor and Andreth, there are no known elf-male/human-female romances.
Meat, however... that one I'm not so sure about. I tend towards thinking yes, they eat meat. There would be no particular reason not to -- animals and plants are both protected by the same Valie (Yavanna), and she assigned watchers over both. In fact, didn't the question of the Firstborn eating the animals come up at the time when the Ents were created? I'm not sure, it's in Silm if you want to check.
But no, I'm not sure. I would say the places to check would be:
-The Hobbit, where the Elvenking has his feast. -The Tale of the Children of Hurin, which gives the most detailed accounts of Menegroth and Nargothrond I know of right before STUPID TURIN destroys them both.
~He came never back among the people of the Elves~
Aule made the dwarves, didn't tell Iluvatar, Iluvatar found out yadda, yadda....Aule hid it from Yavanna, but then after lluvatar found out and yadda, yadda, Aule told Yavanna about the dwarves and she said, "[ ] Yet, because thou hiddest this thought from me until its achievement, thy children will have little love for the things of my love. [ ]." And he said, "That shall also be true of the Children of Iluvatar; for they will eat and build. And though the things of thy realm have worth in themselves, and would have worth if no Children were to come, yet Eru will give them dominion, and they shall use all that they find in Arda: though not, by the purpose of Eru, without respect or without gratitude." And so she was grieved and went running off to Manwe to find out if what Aule said was true and Manwe told her yes it was true and she threw a fit so he asked her of all that she had created which did she want to be reserved from the dominion of others, which did she hold dearest and she said, "All have their worth and each contributes to the worth of the others. But the kelvar can flee or defend themselves, whereas the olvar that grow cannot. [ ]" So after consulting with Iluvatar in a vision, Manwe responded to Yavanna, "[ ] When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar and the olvar and some will dwell therein, and be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared. For a time: while the Firstborn are in their power, and while the Secondborn are young."
In light of this exchange it sounds to me as if, yes, the Elves ate meat. It was not specified that the animals or the plants needed to be protected from the Secondborn only, but rather from all of the Children of Iluvatar and Aule's children. As a matter of fact the Ents were only supposed to be active while the Elves were in power and while Men were young. So I'm assuming that when the time of the Elves came to an end and the Age of Men began then the time of the Ents also ceased to be. If anyone gets a different interpretation of this please share it.
If I didn't harass you, you would think I was mad at you.
Listen guys, my computer had a major hiccup and is in the shop, so I'll be out of pocket for a few days. So hS, I won't be harassing you and Glorfindel you can write in peace. As soon as I can I will come back and give you my take on the new version.