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Post by Huinesoron on Aug 29, 2007 19:17:25 GMT -5
(I'm posting this because there's a possibility RIGHT NOW on the PPC Board of this project getting going again. This is addressed to anyone interested in joining, or re-joining, the project. It's also a summary of the State Of Play, which I think at least mildly useful. That all said, on with the post!) Hail, SilmFilmers! Yes, I already said that. Welcome to/back to the Silmarillion Film Project. Here's your briefing: This project's aim is to make a quartet of animated films, chronicling the great work known as the Silmarillion. The films are provisionally entitled: The Fall of the Noldor The Lay of Leithian The Tale of Turin The War of Wrath Rough (and slightly outdated) summaries for the films can be found at silmfilm.proboards25.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1100793309&page=1#1100980452. I won't quote it here, it's quite long. A certain amount of progress has been made towards this goal. Significantly, the first drafts of two scripts have been completed. FotN can be found here: silmfilm.proboards25.com/index.cgi?board=words&action=display&thread=1128091527Leithian can be found here: silmfilm.proboards25.com/index.cgi?board=words&action=display&thread=1134485337 and silmfilm.proboards25.com/index.cgi?board=words&action=display&thread=1101291086A small amount of preliminary editing work has also been done -- unfortunately, when we finally got to that stage, there were only about three people left on the project, so it's not necessarily good editing. Still, you can find it here: silmfilm.proboards25.com/index.cgi?board=words&action=display&thread=1133178897 and silmfilm.proboards25.com/index.cgi?board=words&action=display&thread=1133179042 (FotN) and silmfilm.proboards25.com/index.cgi?board=words&action=display&thread=1134405695 (Leithian). That's the writing side, which I was most involved in, and it's the most progressed portion of the project. There are others: Artwork -- the second most developed part. Various concept designs were thrown around - I recall Orcs and Silmarils. Still, there's not all that much. Score -- just a little discussion as to what should be used. Voices -- nothing, really, for obvious reasons. (All the departments can be accessed from the front page of the forum) So, what do we need now? Well... everything. At this point, we should have three teams working in tandem: one editing FotN and Leithian, one creating designs and even storyboards for the edited scripts, and one coming up with the music. The voices and other areas (putting it all together, notably) aren't as important yet, but will come to be in the future. I would recommend, at this point, not trying to write the scripts for Turin or WoW -- it would seem like overkill, even if they would make good reading. But if we're going to make these into films, we should get to it. ~~~~ That's the state of the project. Now, we need you. If you're reading this, you're either a) newly joined from the PPC Board (welcome!), b) an old member who happened to come by (welcome back!), or c) someone who just happened across us (welcome! Tell your friends!). Whoever you are, please, please stay and help out. And, as I say, tell your friends! The original project had members from the PPC and from the Barrowdowns; we're not exclusive, so if you know another board that might like the idea, by all means, tell them! A final note: the disclaimer. The SilmFilm project is NOT FOR PROFIT. If you're looking to make your fortune here, forget it. We are in this for FUN. What we get out, if we do complete the films, will be freely distributed to the members of the project who are still active at the time (there's incentive for you!) so that they can show it to whoever they want. It will not and can not be sold. We don't want to get on Christopher Tolkien's bad side, do we now? Now that that's all clear... welcome back, people. Please talk to me, I'm lonely here...
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Post by derleu on Aug 30, 2007 15:57:07 GMT -5
If people here manage to restart (and if dozens of other "if's" are fulfilled), I have a conceptual question because I'm new here and have no concrete imagination of realizing this:
Which kind of animation?
2D animation? 3D animation? Only successing stills? Or for the nostalgists ;-) The Bakshi method? Or - why not - a mixture of different styles if it fits to the story? Each kind of animation needs different skills, different software and a lot of work, of course (stills would be a lot easier, but not really "animated"). It does'nt have to be answered right now and should probably be discussed in a new thread.
Thanks for reading
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Post by Huinesoron on Sept 15, 2007 4:53:48 GMT -5
Oh dear. Well, at least you're not asking why we're not doing live-action...
As far as I'm aware, no decision was made beyond the inevitable 'dear sweet Valar NO ROTOSCOPING!!!'. So this really is an open question. Obviously, the answer depends on several things: the first being what we can do for free, and the second what suits the mood of the film. It may be that differing styles would work -- it'd certainly lessen the load on individual animators (oh, wait, we don't have any of those, either...). If we do use a moving style, as opposed to successing stills (which would be the easy option), I suspect they'll be looking for any excuse to temporarily revert to stills...
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Post by Megwych on Sept 15, 2007 13:42:47 GMT -5
Well, I remember checking in a few months ago...I'm glad it's up again! I'll head off to the score board, now.
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Post by Berzerker_prime on Sept 16, 2007 11:32:20 GMT -5
You want me to come back to this project after the way I was treated? You must be kidding me.
I just reread the FotN script and the same problems exist with it that I mentioned before I left, starting with FĂ«anor coming off as a whiny, angsty teenager. Gimme a break. No amount of editing can fix that. It needs to be scrapped and re-written completely. This is never going to work the way you want it to unless someone around here gets a better concept of film editing, pacing, narrative, blocking, and characterization. And you have to stop shooting down those who actually know something about it.
Contrary to popular fan-boy belief, adapting a book to screen does not mean using the book as a script or a storyboard.
Berz.
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Post by derleu on Sept 17, 2007 5:45:52 GMT -5
@ Huinesoron There are opportunities to do it low cost. In case of 3d animation, Blender is an open source, though very professional software. www.blender.org/But if noone can handle such software, it's useless to think about it. It needs just more advertising to find this out. @ Berzerker_prime You seem to have some knowledge about movie adaptation, and probably you're right. I just don't know, if you can convince of all people the PPCers to make some changes in the storyline (like Boyens/Walsh in LotR). I really don't know as I have nothing to do with the PPC. (did they treat you so bad?) P.S.: Hurray!! Answers. Discussions. Life in the forum. Brilliant!
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Post by Huinesoron on Sept 17, 2007 11:07:38 GMT -5
Berz -- okay, if that's what you want. I just sent the email out to everyone, I wasn't really paying much attention to names when I did.
As to the script, anyone is free to write an alternate version at this point if they so choose. Unfortunately, when the project began, there was no one else who wanted to, or was willing to. Additionally, it needs someone/a group of someones who will take it through to the end. We've got at least one prologue for one of the other films lying around with nothing to follow it because the writer didn't stay around long enough. (Also, I object to your objection to the characterisation of Feanor as 'whiny'. This is the elf who decided to rebel against the Valar because Daddy wasn't paying enough attention to him -- whiny, he is).
And the question of people who know about film editing and etc -- constructive advice is useful here. Saying 'you need to scrap everything' and 'you don't know about these things' is all very well, but doesn't tell us what to do instead.
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Post by Fuin Elda on Sept 20, 2007 21:08:03 GMT -5
Okay, seeing as I wandered in here from one of the biggest LoTR boards thanks to one of your members advertising where he wasn't suppose to , I have a few questions, I don't think I should ask them all right now, Or I'll start sounding like an AD..... The first though is what do we actually have for artists and writers and crew in general?
As I know I can cover a decent amount of art as well as animation if needed (I have Macromedia Flash) So I could only do 2D and that I'm sure would take a while becuase I've not actually animated anything worth while for over 3 years now... But rust can be polished off easily enough
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Post by derleu on Sept 21, 2007 3:12:33 GMT -5
Okay, seeing as I wandered in here from one of the biggest LoTR boards thanks to one of your members advertising where he wasn't suppose to Oh, that was my fault. But I think, this board doesn't rival any other Tolkien board as its goals are quite different. Anyway, I guess artists like you are needed the most at this moment, so I'm glad you're here.
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Post by Fuin Elda on Sept 21, 2007 9:35:58 GMT -5
Yes, I understand that! *g* That is why I am here, most sites like this don't even dream of competing against that hulking monster....
However if we ever get the animation done I know we'd be able to show it there and get some amazing feedback.
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Post by gundamkiwi on Sept 22, 2007 1:39:11 GMT -5
*waves* I'm more than willing to bang out concept sketches and have a go at storyboards. Can't help much in the animation department at the moment, but I'm thinking that's still a ways off, so no worries yet, eh? hS, you can always prod me via LJ and lead me back here if I disappear.
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Post by tamitha on Oct 30, 2007 18:05:11 GMT -5
As I am such a newcomer and many of you have been working on this project for a long time, especially Huinesoron, I do not want to step on anyone's toes. I looked over the edited scripts and I love the prologue and the voice overs. That's part of the problem of bringing the Silmarillion to script, some of has to just to be told and not necessarily acted or dialogued out. I love the idea of presenting the Ainur and Iluvatar as lights. That is what I had imagined the first time I visited the sight and realized what you all were attempting to accomplish. I also like the idea of having the Ainur "fall to Ea as meteors" this is also a concept I had imagined while I was contemplating whether or not I wanted to join the forum. Most of the language is awesome, I can imagine these character saying some of the dialogue in the manner it has been presented. I don't think I necessarily see Feanor as whiney though. I get the concept, however I see him more beligerent and arrogant, wanting to run roughshod over everyone, bossy, bully type. That said I also think the women, his wife in particular would not be shall we say such a nag. I mean I just don't think that she would necessarily be complaining about the lack of time her husband was spending with the family. But I can see Feanor bragging about his project to his wife, father and sons while trying to keep it a secret from his brothers, and I can see him getting beligerent with his wife if she said something negative about his accomplishment or reprimanded him for not spending enough time with the boys. I understand time constraints, but when I read the scripts there are certain things I am looking for since I've read the Sil twice. Some things I liked about the original scripts was that the kinslaying was included and the rescue of Maedhros was included. I know it is not a good idea to over do voiceovers, but a lot of movies are falling back on this these days, especially at the beginning and then scattered about throughout the movie and flashbacks are great too because you can let the audience see what is happening without necessarily having dialogue. I didn't necessarily like the idea in the original script of Anrod being killed on the burning ship, because part of the torture of their curse was that none of seven were killed until much later on and they had to live with the fact that their kin were being slaughtered because of their heinous oath, but it appears that has been scrapped at this point. I haven't been around long enough to try to go in an edit other people's work, who have been at this for apparently three years and I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome. I'm just trying to throw some ideas out there for you to think about and make your own adjustments if you want to. Or not. This has a lot of potential. I think eventually it could turn into something really enjoyable. Too bad Mr. Chris Tolkien doesn't see how great of a movie this could be. I'm just grateful he did the necessary work to bring it to print for all us. There were alot of things about LOTR I didn't understand fully until after I read the Sil Good luck to all of you working on this project.
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Post by derleu on Nov 6, 2007 13:49:56 GMT -5
I've thought about the style of the movie again and now believe that a mixture of different styles could make the work for artists technically easier AND artistically reasonable at the same time. If most of the film is animated in a certain style, then there are scenes that could be done each in a different style, because these are "special scenes". (Only for FotN so far.)
So here are the special scenes and suggestions for their realization:
Ainulindale (animation) Multi-coloured light show ;-) This is, of course, a very abstract style and differs from the rest of the movie.
Early Arda and the realm of Almaren (stills) I could imagine the period from the Ainur entering Arda until the elves waking up as stills. Not only that it would avoid another difficult animation (collapsing pillars etc.), but it would be also shown as an ancient remembrance from the perspective of the elves. Tolkien always wrote stories about the elves (that's why the story ends when the elves are leaving middle-earth at the third age), so everything that happened before the elves woke up, is not completely sure, they only were told the story by the Valar. A change in style could show this difference.
The map scene (animation) That's obvious.
The Song of Yavanna (stills or crazy animation) The script says: "somewhat surreal in form" Nuff said! ;-)
Elwe meets Melian (stills) A classical flashback. Not as ancient as the Valarian story, but maybe a more romantic style. Would be nice with stills.
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Post by Huinesoron on Nov 7, 2007 9:15:36 GMT -5
Derleu -- I like that idea, especially the use of stills, but there is one thing to remember -- at some point I'll be revising the prologue down to be shorter than it already is -- possibly cutting out Almaren altogether, definitely shortening it. So the avoidance of difficult animation is less important. For thematic reasons, however, it could work. I assume the transition from still to motion would be the (I assume it's a) pan down from Varda's new stars to Cuivienen?
Did I /really/ write 'somewhat surreal'? Oh dear, oh dear... (Note that the specific Song /so/ needs changing)
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Post by Maeglin on Feb 15, 2008 5:20:57 GMT -5
Yeah. I'm back too, a bit anyway
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