Elianna
Journyer
Isn't Eldarion adorable!
Posts: 46
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Post by Elianna on Mar 13, 2005 22:33:44 GMT -5
I vote they do NOT have wings, and let's just keep it at that.
But aside from wings or not, what do they look like?
Call me beauracratic, but I vote hardly anything gets done with broad topics. We've got the orc thread now, so how about the other baddies: Balrogs, dragons, Sauron, Morgoth himself. Anyone got pics, or ideas?
edit: CURSES! stupid computer. forgot to actually click "No" and it recorded me as voting "yes". stupid stupid stupid stupid computer.
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Post by Huinesoron on Mar 13, 2005 22:48:43 GMT -5
I'd say yes, they have wings. I will not comment on the usefulness of those wings, but I just think that a Balrog with wings would look scarier. That would actually be their justification for having them.
As to the others, I'd like to put in a couple of words about Melkor. I'm still undecided as to whether he should change appearence by the end of FotN -- the Silm says he does, but I'm thinking it'd be confusing. Right now, I'm working on the idea that he gets his face burnt by the Silmarils. But anyway.
Certainly prior to the Darkening of Valinor, Melkor has to look /nice/. After all, he was pretending to be. I'm thinking that, in the scenes he shows up in before he appears at Formenos the first time, he would be wearing white, and have a face to match. Confusing, I know, but I don't like the idea of making the Bad Guy obvious by his appearence (yes, Grima Wormtongue, I'm looking at you).
-- you know, if I'd thought this through, I could have stuck my vote in as 'No' so that it all balanced out correctly. Bleh.
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Post by Maeglin on Mar 14, 2005 2:15:30 GMT -5
Are we going to make the distinction between little balrogs, that get nailed in vast quantities by Tuor at Gondolin, and big Balrogs like Gothmog? The latter, I think, have wings, but these wings are more for flailing about and killing than flying.
Huinesoron, love your idea about Melkor wearing white. But don't knock Grima son of Galmod...
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Post by Huinesoron on Mar 14, 2005 6:46:33 GMT -5
I'm not mocking Grima himself, I'm knocking the Jackson interpretation. Did he, or did he not, stand out like a skyscraper in a village of mud huts?
Hmm, there's a thing. 'tis generally accepted that there were only about six Balrogs, but with all these people killing them -- Feanor must have got a couple, Fingon, Tuor, Hurin possibly -- there shouldn't have been any left. So if we have the little, man-sized ones, wingless, basically just orcs with flames and shadow attached, and then the bigger, winged, looming variety, which it would actually be /hard/ to kill, and of which there weren't many (Gothmog, Glorfindel's one, Durin's Bane, and a couple more)... yes, I think that would work. Good idea.
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Post by Maeglin on Mar 14, 2005 9:49:06 GMT -5
Aw, I loooved Brad Dourif! I loved that bit where it goes as follows:
GRIMA: He's not welcome here. (hint, nudge, hint)
THEODEN: Whyyy should...I...welcome...you, Gandalf Stormcrow?
(He smiles up to Grima as if he's just said something seriously clever.)
GRIMA: (as if to a child) A just question, my liege...
I think that was among my favourite bits in the films...cracks me up every time...
Anyway, ah, Balrogs. Big and little. Decided. Cool. And conversely, what about Umaiar Orcs? Are we dealing with them?
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Post by Huinesoron on Mar 14, 2005 11:21:20 GMT -5
Oh, yes, he was great, but... wouldn't someone have thought 'Hey, this new servent of the King's is a little greasy... pale... hissing... you know, vaguely evil...'?
-- okay, what are we talking about with the orcs? Could you clarify this one?
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Post by Maeglin on Mar 14, 2005 11:24:07 GMT -5
Well, that was how Tolkien described him. Pale and dark. Wasn't it?
I mean, Orcs that are inhabited by Maiarin spirits, that Tolkien hinted about in his writings.
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Post by Huinesoron on Mar 14, 2005 11:26:52 GMT -5
I don't think he mentioned 'greasy'.
Ah, I lose track of all the things Tolkien mentioned. So they'd really just be the Evil equivalent of the Maiar in Elf form... possibly a little bigger and more powerful looking than regular orcs... looking a little more like they were designed to do damage, as opposed to the normal orcs, who were altered from a basically peaceful race. Ye-es, that makes sense.
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Post by Hador Goldenhead on Mar 14, 2005 16:25:03 GMT -5
I know Tolkien was a bit ambiguous (to say the least) on the ''Balrogs & wings' thing - but if I recall correctly I never once remember any of them actually flying (though I recall them falling - hmm... strange if they had the power of flight).
So (like others have suggested), if they are present - then they probably aren't functional.
But if balrog wings were to be present in the movies, then maybe they could be represented by smoke alone - not actual material things you could touch - just billowing smoke manifesting itself in the form of giant bat-like wings.
Just an idea.
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Post by Ka on Mar 15, 2005 23:41:43 GMT -5
Oh gods NOoooooooooooo! Not the Balrog enigma! Eh, Well, i'm not going to re-type my whole essay from the barrow downs forum on this one except what I DO agree with: 'Metaphysical' wings... Don't ask... Unless your curiosity is that annoying...
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Post by Ka on Mar 15, 2005 23:43:48 GMT -5
For the closest physical description, translucent wing-forms... You know, they are not there one minute, then BAM!!! WINGS!!! That are there but, not so much to keep both sides happy...
~Diplomatic Ka
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Post by Ka on Mar 15, 2005 23:46:46 GMT -5
Subconcious maybe...
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Elianna
Journyer
Isn't Eldarion adorable!
Posts: 46
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Post by Elianna on Mar 16, 2005 19:40:42 GMT -5
Subconcious maybe... NEVER! My dad (Glorfindel) killed a Balrog by knocking it down a big hole; I would think that would have turned out differently if it had had wings. Anyway: I like the idea of just shadowy wings, but more obviously shadowy than in PJ's version. Or perhaps, we could do something like Constantine, just flash the wings in one shot, then they're not there. Meep, I can't quite describe it, go watch it (NOTE: It is rated R for language and frightening images, and I had a hard time getting to sleep after watching it.)
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Post by The Only Real Estel on Mar 16, 2005 20:13:01 GMT -5
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Post by Huinesoron on Mar 17, 2005 10:36:57 GMT -5
So give that question to a character. Have Tuor ask why the Balrogs don't just fly up onto the walls of Gondolin, or somesuch.
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